Screenshots

An email I received :
Researcher: Indian M'sians dominate lowest-paid jobs
Syed Jaymal Zahiid | Dec 6, 07 11:22am
The Indian community in this country is ailing and no argument by any
Barisan Nasional (BN) leader
can rebut this fact, according to one researcher.

Monitoring Sustainability of Globalisation director and researcher
Charles Santiago said the
recent remark by a deputy minister that the Indians were doing better
than the Malays, gave the
wrong impression.

Deputy Rural and Regional Development Minister Zainal Abidin Osman told
the Dewan Rakyat that the
household income for Indians in 2004 was RM3,456, while it was RM2,711
for the 'Malays' and
RM4,437 for the Chinese.

The spotlight fell on the Indian community following a mass rally on Nov
25 organised by the Hindu
Rights Action Force (Hindraf), which saw some 30,000 people taking to
the streets amid allegations
of marginalisation and ill treatment.

So are the Indians better off as claimed by Zainal Abidin?

'Bumiputera' term

"This is not true," stressed Santiago when met yesterday. "He must have
acquired his facts from
the Ninth Malaysian Plan (9MP) but I can tell you that Zainal's method
of approaching the issue
was incorrect."

Research showed that Zainal did acquire his facts from the 9MP in which
the income per capita
indicator had shown that the Indian household income was higher than the
bumiputera.

However, Santiago noted that the key word here is the term 'bumiputera'.

He said the bumiputera category included non-Malay bumiputeras like the
natives in Sabah and
Sarawak and the Orang Asli.

This "weighted down the per capita income of the well-off Malay
bumiputeras," he added.

"Their (non-Malay bumiputera) income is one of the lowest in the country
and of course if you
categorise them as a single bumiputera ethnic group, the income index
for the well-off Malay
bumiputera will be lower than the Indians because the non-Malay
bumiputera population is
considerably high," he explained.

The 9MP's Employment by Occupation and Ethnic Group chart from 2000 to
2005 also showed that the
Indians were economically the worst of the three major races in this
country.

In 2005, for the low-wage labour sectors like plant, machine operators
and assemblers, Indians
constitute the highest number at 20.8 %, compared to bumiputeras (15.5
%) and Chinese (11.1 %).

Indians also dominate the lowest-paid non-production employment sector
such as janitors and
cleaners, with16.3 % compared to bumiputeras (9.9 %) and Chinese (8 %).
[See chart below]

Another startling fact was that under the 9MP, a total of RM64 million
had supposedly been
allocated for 525 Tamil schools but only a total of RM2 million was
given, which means that each
school will only get a total of RM24,780 for a five-year period.

There are 148 Tamil schools which are fully aided while the remaining
396 are partially aided
despite a Social Science Foundation's study showing that Tamil primary
schools performed much
better than national schools.

Apart from the schools issue, about 70,000 Indians born in this country
do not have identity cards
or birth certificates.

Set-up task force

Although Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi promised to elevate the
status of Indians under the
9MP saying that they will be given a compulsory three percent equity
ownership by 2010, Santiago
fails to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

"No concrete mechanism to introduce this law was mentioned in the 9MP,"
he said.

"The 9MP has 599 pages but there is no mention about how the Indians are
to enjoy the benefit of
the compelling of businesses to give a three percent equity to them," he
added.

If the government is serious in tackling Indian woes, Santiago said
emphasis must be placed on
education.

"Most of the Indians out there are unskilled and they cannot cope with a
world that is ever
demanding for more skilled workers.

"If education for the Indians remains as it is, how will they survive?
This is the kind of
situation that forces them to resort to crime," he added.

He suggested that the government set up a task force to be chaired by
the prime minister himself
to focus on measures to help tackle the 'Indian problem'.

"It must be Abdullah himself. No one else can solve this but the head of
the policy makers," he
added.

Another email I received :
Subject: Fw: Oh yes.we can do all the necessary arrangment with PM
-Dato'Seri S. Samy Vellu (answer to this Question)

Questions for MIC's Hotline

KillBill07 | Dec 6, 07 4:38pm

As a result of the Hindraf rally, MIC is planning to set up
a hotline to listen to the grievances of Indian Malaysians.
Through this hotline, MIC will transmit the problems to the
party big wigs. It looks like the usual way of complaining
to your elected officials was not working too well for the
Indians. Nevertheless, I think we should give this hotline
a chance.

Once the hotline is up and running, I am sure it will be
ringing almost non-stop. These are some of the questions my
active imagination has conjured up:

Caller 1

My son got 5 As in his SPM but failed to get place in UTM
for even a diploma course. My non-Indian neighbour managed
a place in a degree course although he only got 2 As. How
is that possible?

Caller 2

Sale of samsu is rampant in our estate. Many families are
suffering when the head of the family becomes addicted to
this poison. Can the MIC urge the government to take this
issue seriously by banning the sale and consumption of
samsu, as what they have done for ganja and other illicit
drugs?

Caller 3

I just graduated and would like to join the public sector
but I don't see any Indian director-generals anywhere. This
has de-motivated me from joining the government sector. I
want to work hard and reach the top. What can MIC do to
remove this glass ceiling that discourages me and other
Indians from joining the public sector?

Caller 4

I am in Form Six. I miss my Malay friends who were with me
in Form Five. Most of them are now pursuing their studies
overseas on government loans or scholarships. Can the MIC
urge the government to send me also? I want to be with my
friends again. Don't worry, my SPM results are as good as
theirs.

Caller 5

I will be sitting for my PMR examinations next year. I live
in an estate where the electricity is generated using a
generator. The power goes off at 9pm just when I am about
to do my homework and study for my exams. After school, I
need to look after my siblings and do household chores
since both my parents work as rubber tappers and are not
home. Can the MIC do something to extend the power till
midnight so that I can study hard for a brighter future?

Caller 6

Whatever happened to M Magendren and N Mohandas - the first
Malaysians to conquer Mount Everest? Abdul Malik Mydin was
made a Datuk for swimming across the English Channel. Why
weren't these two heroes given a Datukship? Don't tell me
that swimming across the channel is more difficult then
reaching the Everest summit. Please right the wrong, MIC.
It is better late than never.

Caller 7

My mom was born in Malaysia before 1957. She still has a
red IC because she is only a permanent resident, not a
citizen. I heard that the government has been giving
citizenship to Indonesians who came here recently. Is this
true? If yes, what can MIC do to help? She sent her
application nine years ago and until today, nobody has
touched her file.

Caller 8

I am calling from Malacca. It is insulting to have a place
named Tanjung Keling after 50 years of independence. The
government has changed many street and town names that has
hints of colonial rule. Why not change Tanjung Keling's
name too since the "K" word is disrespectful to Indians?

It will be interesting for other Malaysian Indians to
append this list of questions. S Samy Vellu is expecting
calls to focus mainly on Tamil schools and Hindu temples.
He may be surprised to find out that the Indian Malaysian
community does not revolve around these two issues only. Be
prepared to get an earful.

It was not aired a second time on
Astro and its very interesting how the foreign minister side steps the
issues Sarah Montague is trying to address. We all know what its like.

Subject: Full Transcript/ BBC-Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar

BBC Hardtalk interview transcript with Msia Foreign Minister Syed Hamid
Albar.

Full Transcript
(Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar's comments in bold.)
Sarah Montague:
Malaysia has just celebrated the 50th anniversary of its independence from
Britain, and there is much to celebrate. Living standards have improved
immeasurably over the past five decades, and the economy is doing well. But
race is increasingly becoming a problem. A third of the population are
ethnic Chinese or Indian. And they are becoming increasingly frustrated at
the systematic discrimination they suffer. My guest today is the country's
Foreign Minister.
[music]
Datuk Seri Syed Hamid Albar, welcome to HARDtalk.
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
Thank you very much.
Sarah Montague:
Is it time to change Malaysia's laws and treat everyone the same?
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
When you talking about, looking at everyone, we're looking at nation
building. The most important thing is Malaysians feel they are Malaysians.
To recognise our diversity as a source of our strength, there is no need
for us to change the laws so long as we're able to exercise the unity,
we're able to act as Malaysians. And I think this is happening, the process
of nation building is not a short process. We came from a very divided
society that was recognised by economic functions, living at a very poor
living standard. So I think we have tackled the issues in a way that will
bring peace and stability, at the same time people are able to share
prosperity of the country. And this is happening..
Sarah Montague:
But there were laws that were originally brought in to help Malays, who
were… basically to tackkle poverty. There might have been some justification
for them at some time, but since poverty has been tackled, the illiteracy
is eradicated, what's the justification for treating generations-old…
ethnic Chinese and Indianss who've been in Malaysia for generations; why
should they be treated differently now?
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
I think when you're looking at it from a detached point of view, you might
be seeing it in that way. But if you look at it in reality, what is
happening is that the economic growth of the non-Malays is faster after the
New Economic Policy than before it. The share of the economic cake, is
bigger, deeper and wider than before, so it is not as if you're looking at
a theoretical, conceptual thing, you're looking at the realities on the
ground. And the realities on the ground, if you look at the household
income, between Malays, Chinese and Indians, even the Indians have got
better household income than the Malays. So I think if you take it out of
its ethnic dimension, then you will see that it is the function of any
government to have the less fortunate, to make sure the divide that is
based on ethnic division can be overcome. And I think we have done that
quite successfully…
Sarah Moontague:
Let's take a look at access to universities. Is it fair that it's easier
for Malays to get to universities than it is for ethnic Indians or Chinese?

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
I think the question, maybe at the beginning, I think it is the same thing
in UK or any country that starts to build a nation. When you start to build
a nation, when you see the disparity, the education opportunities, what we
wanted to do was to create the opportunity. How do you avoid seeing people
who are living in the rural areas with less facilities, how…
Sarah Monttague:
… but you don't have that problem any longer it''s difficult to justify..
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
We do have.. we have.. At present it is based on merit, it is based on
merit, and I think if you look at the university, our democrisation of the
education, you have to look in total, the number of students in Malaysia. I
think people who see it from outside will try to aggravate the situation
and say 'Oh there is disparity between..
Sarah Montague:
But it doesn't just seem.. but it doesn't just seem to be people from
outside who are saying this, people within.. it is ethnic Indians and
Chinese in Malaysia…
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
I think you have too look at it this way.. I think without me getting
excited about it, or emotional about it, looking at it in a fair balance;
if you look in terms of total number of students of all universities in
Malaysia, there are still more non-Malays than the Malays. And this should
not be an issue that divides us. I think ultimately we have done, we have
tackled all issues step by step, and it is working. I think for Malaysia it
is working. Wherever we see that there is disparity.. At one time
scholarships were given to Malays; government scholarships were given to
Malays. Now it is open to non-Malays also. So all these things are
happening, but we must dismantle..
Sarah Montague:
But what about government contracts…
Dato Seri Syyed Hamid Albar:
For your information, the contracts that are enjoyed by the Chinese in
absolute terms, and the non-Malays, is bigger than even the Malays. If I
have a piece of land that is one acre in a rural area, that one piece of
acre of land, may be valued at RM10,000, or it's about US$3,000. But if I
have got a ten thousand square feet of land, in the urban area, that will
cost millions. So we do not look at that.. We are building a nation, a
nation that has been left divided, been recognised through economic
activities, now there is building on common factors amongst us.
Sarah Montague:
But do you not accept that you are in danger.. that there is rising
resentment among ethnic Indians and Chinese because of this situation.. it
is persisting when they don't see that it needs to persist any longer..
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
I think there is a lot more discussion, open discussion, but you do not
misinterpret that open discussion among the races is something negative. It
shows that the nation has reached the stage of maturity. We're questioning
things that before we have taken for granted. The Chinese are looking at
what more can they get, the Indians are looking how they could improve; I'm
not saying that there is no problem, but for outsiders to come and tell us,
'Ohh you're going.. there is going to be racial tension, there is going to
be problem..' No. I think you just witnessed the 50th anniversary of
independence. I think there is that sense of belonging and ownership. It is
up to the Malaysians to subsequently to dismantle whatever they consider is
necessary…
Sarah Montague:
… how is is it that ethnic Indians and Chinese feel a sense of belonging when
they're, right from the very top, they can't get access to the top Cabinet
posts?
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
Who told you that?
Sarah Montague:
When was the last time a senior Cabinet post was held by an ethnic Indian
or Chinese?
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
What do you mean by 'senior Cabinet post'?
Sarah Montague:
Since 1973, the top Cabinet posts: Prime Minister, Deputy, Home Affairs,
Internal Security, Defense, Foreign, Finance, Education, Trade and
International Trade.. 1973 is the last time any of those posts was held by
a non-Malay..
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
I can argue the same thing with so many countries, I can argue the same
thing..
Sarah Montague:
We're not.. we're not talking about other countries, we're talking about
Malaysia. Other countries can deal with their problems of their own. How
would you deal.. Do you recognise that is a problem?
You talk about sharing power, there is..
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
No no let me talk to you in a way that is most… thatt you do not get
excited… that you do not get upset aboout something that you do not
understand. Let me tell you this: Whenever we want to do something, it is
important for us to look at other countries. That's where we learn, that's
how we leapfrog. Democracy does not come by itself, it comes because we
look at the examples of other places. So let me say that, in the case that,
the most important thing is, there will come a time when the Chinese, the
Indians and the other races in Malaysia have accepted that arrangement; how
can somebody from outside come to tell us, 'Ohh..'
Sarah Montague:
You mean…
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
They have accepted..
Sarah Montague:
.. you mean this situation is fine because nobody is saying anything in
Malaysia about it..
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
No no.. not nobody is saying. If they are able to.. if the Opposition, if
they're able.. or the Chinese parties decide to get together and to change
that thing, there is nothing under the law to stop it. That is what I'm
saying..
Sarah Montague:
Do you not think it's a little odd that all the senior posts… in the
Cabiinet in the last 30 years have been held by a non-Malay?
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
I don't think… I don't thiink so. This is a democratic system. Each one of
them have agreed in the coalition to work together. It is well and good for
somebody to say that 'All this.. it should not be', I don't think we're
going to be told how it should be..
Sarah Montague:
There is outside… there is insside Malaysia who say this.. this social
contract is actually State racism. What do you say to that?
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
Oh. I can say the worse about Israeli State racism; in our case we don't
have that provision. You have to look at it in, I think, objectively. I
don't think it is right to look at Malaysia as a racist country. I don't
think it is right. You should see how the infusion of cultures, the getting
together, the people get along together.. Yes you can find there are..
people who disagree with it.. there are certain things that people say 'Ah
it's not perfect,'.. I would be the last person that say this is a perfect
situation, but I think we have succeeded in building a multiracial society
out of our diversity. We have succeeded in bringing the whole of the
Malaysian community, even against the diverse backgrounds, together, to
work together. There will come a time…¦ that… if it is the choice of the
people, because one person is one vote..
Sarah Montague:
When do you think that time will come..
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
… TThat is up to the voters…
Sarah Montague:
Because therre are plenty of people outside Malaysia, who look at it, and
let's take a look at investors, because [while you] think, 'Look it's
absolutely fine,' there are those who would invest in Malaysia, but choose
not to do so. And here's an emerging markets fund manager. He's cashed out
most of his fund investments in Malaysia, because he said, 'The problem is
that the Malays would do a lot better as well if there weren't the
restrictions. They've got the resources, they've got the people; they're
just not harnessing them in the right way.' And he suggests that you roll
back those measures, to encourage entrepreneurial energy. And that was Mark
Mobius, who's the fund manager with Franklin Templeton.
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
I think what he's saying, if you do not… If there are tten fund managers,
there is one fund manager that say in that way, then I think he is entitled
to his own view. But the majority of fund managers find that Malaysia is a
good place for investment, it is a good place that gives good returns on
investment; the Malaysian economy has grown because of foreign investment..

Sarah Montague:
But why has it not grown as much as other countries in the area..
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
I think they're quite happy that it has grown for the last.. If you look at
it from double digit, now we have grown about 6 percent, so it's not a bad
growth..
Sarah Montague:
… But iit's slowing and your neighbouring countries are growing faster.
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
No there are times that our neighbouring countries grow slower, and we grow
faster. I mean, you can't take… one particular moment aand say 'Oh this is
growing faster, therefore it is because of..', I tell you..I can actually
give all sorts of clarifications if I want to, on so many things. But I
think you have to look at it; have we succeeded in creating peace and
stability, in generating prosperity among the races, have we succeeded in
trying to infuse culture out of our diversity; we are better off than many
other countries..
Sarah Montague:
But my question is, will it continue to do so?
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
I think it will. I am not in the same position like you are… lookk at it
negatively. I am a Malaysian. My love for my country, my commitment to my
country, I would say yes. I am not going to allow any foreigners to tell
me, 'Oh this is going to break'. No I will not allow that.
Sarah Montague:
A recent survey on race relations in Malaysia found that 34 percent of
those who were asked had never had a meal with citizens of other races. The
lives of different races within Malaysia are now so divided that, that you
have different races ­ they learn in separate schoolls, they eat separately,
they work separately, they socialise separately ­ does that worry you?
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
If that happens like the way you say, of course it worries us. That's why
we have been addressing the racial issues. We talk about among ourselves, I
do not know whether you [?] realise or not, we talk about the danger of
polarisation, the danger of us looking at ourselves separately, of course
we tackle these problems. But we recognise, it can exist. But we have got a
desire of tackling those issues. It's not we are saying, you know try to
brush everything under the carpet and think, 'Oh it doesn't exist'. What
exists, we recognise. But it is not.. it is not as if we are not doing
something..
Sarah Montague:
But why is society is becoming increasingly divided? The Crown Prince of
Perak makes the point that in his boyhood, the different races mixed more
freely. He says some Malay-majority schools have made the girls wear
headscarves… … people to avoid non-Malay homes. s. He points to the fact that
lives are being lived more separately, increasingly so.
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
I think that's a very good comment that he has made. He is as much
responsible as all of us are. All of us have to find a way… that means we
have identified the probleems that we have… the fact that a person wears a
headsccarf does not make a person an extreme. What we want to avoid, is
extreme behaviour, whether of faith or culture, or of customs. We need to
work together. I think the most important thing, you know Sarah, if I can
tell you, is to understand the issues and then try to address them. Not to
look at the issues, and say that, 'Oh it's getting worse.' There is this
problem, we need to tackle those problem. I'm not saying that there is no
problem. That is the very thing that you are saying..
Sarah Montague:
.. the fact that it is getting worse, and when I quote the Crown Prince …
uhh… the prominent historian Khoo Ko Kay Kim says, 'It is becoming
increasingly difficult for the peoples of various ethnic groups to
participate in common activity.'
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
No, I think this is what the Malaysians have addressed. All of us are
talking about it. It's not something that is alien, that you are telling me
that this exists; we know that.
Sarah Montague:
But it is getting worse. Do you not accept it is getting worse?
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
No, I think there is relations all over the world, is getting worse.
Polarisation all over the world is getting worse. But it does not mean you
should give up. We know it exists, but we want to take steps to overcome
them. That's why, our current government, is giving the opportunity, for
everyone to talk about it. And then try to provide solutions. One of the
things that we have done in the Merdeka celebrations is to make that sense
of participation, that every race… Because we know there is that probllem of
polarisation, division… People leaving go to Chiinese schools, go to Tamil
schools, they don't mix with each other; so all these, we are handling and
tackling them. I am not going to take…
Sarah Montague:
What are you plan to do about the schools then, the fact that…
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
The schools, we need to overcome the problem of sensitivities. We wanted to
establish the integrated schools, where everyone, studying their language,
their … medium of instruction, under one schhool. But here in this
particular case, the Chinese does not want. They want a separate school of
their own. So now what we have done, in the national schools, we have
brought in the… you can study Chinese, you can study Tammil, you can study
other ethnic… You know you can't gett that in other places. You know some… I
think, we recoognise their problems, but it is not a problem we cannot
overcome.
Sarah Montague:
Article 11 of the Malaysian Constitution says 'every person has the right
to profess and practise his religion'. Increasingly, that seems to be
becoming meaningless. Is it?
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
I don't think so. I don't agree with you. You're talking about practising
their own religion.. you know, Malaysia is one of the places that you can
see the practice of multi-religions, and all religions exist in Malaysia.
But if you're talking about, you know, converting one person to… That is a
different issue entirely…
Sarahrah Montague:
Why is a Muslim, and there have been some high-profile cases, perhaps one
of the most high-profile – Lina Joy, a Malay woman. She tried to convert to
Christianity and she wasn't allowed to.
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
I think you have made the whole thing… turn intto something that is
negative. Lina Joy wanted to change her name; she was never not allowed to
convert to Christianity or whatever religion that she has chosen. But a
person is born, with an identity card; there is a system that we have in
Malaysia, the ID. And that ID you want to change, that creates problems. It
is nothing to do with the fact that nobody has arrested her and forced her
to become a Muslim, to convert to become a Muslim. But the court decided,
on the basis that, you cannot change your name in the ID. But she has got
her own choice, she has made her own choice, in wanting to be what she has
chosen. I don't think we stop that.
Sarah Montague:
So anybody can convert. Let's take the case of Revathi Masoosai. Now she
was a Muslim-born Malaysian woman, who was sent to an Islamic
rehabilitation centre for six months, because she tried to live as a Hindu.

Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
[pause] I think that happens all the time, for a Muslim, you have to look
at the diversity.. If you are a Muslim, you are converted or you choose to
convert – we see whether that conversion is being done, she has entered
into another religion voluntarily or not, then she will have that right,
the choice, the option to decide on her own. I think … out of 5 million
Malaysians, orr there are about 12 million Malaysians who have profess
certain religions, and there are two or three cases; I don't think it
represents the whole country. And there are quite a number of issues that
are more important, bigger than what you are describing, but if you
describe out of one, then it becomes the whole picture. I don't think that
is right.
Sarah Montague:
It's.. it's important because it shows what the State is doing, it shows
how it could affect other individuals. I mean, if you take her case, why
could she not practise as a Hindu?
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
She has decided.. If ultimately she has decided to become a Hindu, that's
up to her.
Sarah Montague:
.. But she had to go through what she has gone…
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
She is a Muslim.
Sarah Montague:
Six months rehabilitation, she says it was like a prison. They say it's a
school, but it's actually like a prison.
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
Yah, out of the how many Muslim women that got converted to Hindus?
Sarah Montague:
She…
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
You arre.. you know she came out, and she said that is what had happened.
Have they proceeded against her? They have not proceeded against her. She
has.. they want to make sure that…
Sarah Montague:
She now has to live with her mmother in order to see her child.
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
To see her child… whether…
Sarah Montague:
Sh She has a child with the Hindu man.
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
You know, if you follow a certain religion, like you are a member of a
certain club, you are subject to certain rules. When you want to get out of
that club, then you must make sure you follow that rule in getting out of
it. But nobody is going to stop anyone, who so strongly profess a certain
religion, they want to change to another religion, that's up to them. But
it does create… misunderstanding, between people, between religions.
Malaysia we have survived, because we have kept …that, thaat compartment
[?], rather than… you know.. the variouss religions living, practising…
without interference. IIf you see in Malaysia, there are more… Malaysia
practiises more freedom than even in this country.
Sarah Montague:
But these cases are used… are used as examples of where people fear a
creeping Islamisation of Malaysia.
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
I think there is.. there is that prejudice rather than creeping
Islamisation. You must remember that in the Constitution, Islam is the
official religion of Malaysia. You know.. that at the same time, we have
got per capita population, we have got so many…
Sarah Montague:
But is it an Islamic State?
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
It is an Islamic State.
Sarah Montague:
It is, or is not?
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
… but it is not a theocratic Islamic State. We have saiid that. You know
because we, as far as we are concerned, we do not see the separation you
know, the old rule ­“ the separation of church and State, as something that
is applicable to us. We do not stop people building churches, there are so
many churches in Malaysia, more than wherever you can find…
Sarah Montague:
But you have Syaariah Courts operating…
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
Syyariah Court is up to the Muslims.
Sarah Montague:
Only for the Muslims?
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
It's for the Muslims. It's not.. it's… you know please don't.. doon't get…
Sarah Montague:
But you have this system beccause of the amendment in 1988, where there
seems to be confusion over when Syariah Law applies, and when…
Datoo Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
I think that.. that.. I know that you have looked at certain parts of it,
and then you try to dissect it. Okay. When there is… on matters pertaaining
to Syariah, the jurisdiction is given to the Syariah Court. On matters
pertaining to Syariah, if there is any conflict between the two laws ­
between the Syariaah and our civil laws ­ it is for the courts to decide.

But this is done in the courts. It is.. we use the rule of law in order to
determine right and to determine which law is applicable. And I think that
is the correct way of approaching the subject. Malaysia is not an easy
country to govern. It is easier for commentators to say 'This is wrong.
This is wrong.. this is wrong,' but I think that you have to live in it, to
see how to govern the country. And I think overall, we are very happy in
what is happening in our country, and whatever weaknesses, we will overcome
them.
Sarah Montague:
When your Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi became prime minister, he
promised to do a number of things, not least tackle corruption. And yet, a
survey by PERC (Editor's Note: Political and Economic Risk Consultancy),
which is a Hong Kong-based consultancy, showed that corruption is perceived
to have worsened in Malaysia this year. Does he accept that you have a lot
more to do?
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
Yes, I think we agree with that. We have to do a lot more in terms of
ensuring good governance, ensuring that our fight against corruption can be
overcome. I think this is a perennial problem that needs to be tackled, and
that has to be tackled with the law, as well as with education, that is why
we have established the Integrity.. the Institute of Integrity, in order to
inculcate that sense of good governance, values ­ which is necessary, sensee
of morality.. When we have problems, we identify them, and we try to tackle
them.
Sarah Montague:
It is not going as fast as you would hope. Do you accept that?
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
I think in some areas it is slow, in some areas it is… moving in the right
direction. But there are.. there are problems.
Sarah Montague:
Datuk Seri Syed Hamid Albar, many thanks.
Dato Seri Syed Hamid Albar:
Thank you very much, thank you.

Not directly related to the topic posted but....... I sincerely hope the journalist's grammar is not a reflection of the quality of our journalists today.

Thank you for these, frustrated doctor.

Now the world knows, too.

As much as Montague was pointed, Syed Albar tried to be rounded.

So, are we now a 'theocratic islamic state'?

They seem to be inventing one thing to get out of another.

And that seems to be because they want to maintain something else.

Is there a lobotomy procedure for a state?