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I am undecided on Saddam.

I am told he is a sadistic ruler. I am also told he was responsible for the deaths of many innocent lives. Heck, I am told many things - but I don't really know what to believe in. Media these days.....

But I noted these bare facts.

When there is uproar at the taunting and hanging of Saddam, what did the Iraqi Government (a.k.a The US Muppets II) do? BLAME AND PROMISE TO PROSECUTE THE DUDE WHO VIDEO-ED IT.

When there was uproar at the nude squat in Police Station, what did the Malaysian Government (a.k.a half past six muppets) do? BLAME AND PROMISE TO PROSECUTE THE DUDE WHO VIDEO-ED IT.

Geez....everyone going to the same political science school or what?

Wonder if the similarities end there.... hmmm...

After viewing the leaked Saddam execution video, I feel damn angry – angry with myself!

I carry with me a lot of anger. I couldn’t forgive the people who hurt my family and devastated my mother. I couldn’t stop wanting to take revenge. I couldn’t stop wanting to chop off their limbs and watch them scream in pain and die a slow death.

After watching the execution video, for several minutes I felt a bolt of electricity had struck me. Then the emotions hit me hard – nausea, horror, shame, tears.

What my mother said was true – leave the punishment to God. She said, "God know best who to punish, when to punish and how to punish."

If Saddam had been barbaric, killing him in barbaric fashion made the people behind the execution equally barbaric.

To dignity2u thanks for hitting the nail on its head as far as watching the execution goes !
Why the rush to hang him and now his 2 assistants ?
If Saddam deserves (by the same western standards )to be hung so does dozens of such head of states all over the world !
The biggest difference being it was Oil rich Iraq and not some wearrily poor third world 'Banana' Republic. 'Might is right' will always prevail and there is a mightier Might that can serve justice and he is the one we all pray to everyday !

It would take years for an American on death row to be executed with the string of appeals normally afforded to the worst of them. In Saddam's case he was swinging within days of his last appeal. Take the cue from President ("Idiot") Bush when he said that the death of Saddam was an important milestone. With the failure to find any WMD, the mantra by Bush and Tony Blair has been, well, "aren't you all happy that we removed a tyrant for you?" There has been so little tangible success for Bush and America that Saddam's death became a much needed milestone.

If you watch the cell phone video of the execution, the only person who behaved in a dignified manner was Saddam himself. The taunts by the guards and the executioners were shameful at best. And the US would want people around the world to believe that they had no control over the process. Having spent billions of dollars, they have no control. What an idiot President Bush really is. More American GIs and innocent civilians will have to die because the American people elected a stupid man.

It has always been said that in politics, choosing between 2 lesser evils is the rule of thumb. Saddam may have had his portion of wrongdoings during his lifetime, but no man no matter how evil he may be, when his death come a calling, he should be treated with just and full of 'adab'. I am a Muslim and have never been so ashamed and disturbed in mylife when i saw how another muslim brother treated another muslim brother in such a way, futhermore at his death. Where was your adab (manners) dealing and treating a man facing death?? How can you call yourself and profess your love for the Prophet and God, and yet behave like animals? Saddam might have been ruthless before, but if he has repented before his death, who are we to judge him, that role is not ours.

I trully believe this is again the US propaganda to create more animosity and divide between the shias and sunnis. If these two keep fighting each other, who do you think will benefit? The damn americans will never want to leave their goldmine, u are dreaming that they will. Their ultimate goal is to see the world of islam erupt, so they can have a full fledge war to wipe the world of muslims alike. Dont be fooled, this day will come a calling.

A couple of points:-

1) Saddam's execution is viewed by some as 'not solving' the tense, and it can even fuel the anger, hatred, boil the bold etc etc - you get the drift. But the tone sounds like Saddam should not be executed or more tragically 'nothing should be done here'. For me and others, Saddam is clear for his wrongdoings and the clear punishment is execution.

2. I dont understand why the Saddam's video was leaked. The way I see it is - it was purposely leaked and the obvious thing is USA receives bad part of it - bad publicity.

syedhs,

"But the tone sounds like Saddam should not be executed or more tragically 'nothing should be done here."

Some people believe in atonement and forgiveness, some are dead set against the death penalty. Others, like you, believe in an eye for an eye and tha's fine too. But the legal process must not only be fair but also seen to be fair. I don't think he should have been tried in Iraq, with the Americans pretending not to be in control. And I don't suppose I'm alone in this thinking. The Americans wouldn't dare let him be tried at The Hague unless conviction was a given.

Anyway, I guess everyone forgot why they want Saddam out the the first place. Why?

If President Clinton is in-charge, you think he will sanction the execution?

There is a long history of feud between Saddam and the Bush family... started since Sr Bush is in-charge. I can't believe they went into such extend, killing his both son then himself. This is like wiping out the whole family.

The release of the gory videos and pics were most unfortunate and 3 prison guards (one doing the video) were arrested and “He will pay the price”. The suggestion for “revenge” was a good guess but Iraqi’s PM has denied this; he wanted “to implement justice”.
Now why “Why Iraqi court and not The Haque?” - This was well argued in the article “Saddam Hussein's Trial” way back in December 15, 2003 in the Heritage Foundation. ICC Not an Option -reliance on the mechanism of the United Nations. The permanent International Criminal Court in The Hague was created as part of a treaty the United States has, rightly, chosen not to sign –“ it lacks the authority to conduct Iraqi war crimes trials. And any temporary court for Iraq (similar to ones already in place of Kosovo and Rwanda) would have to be approved by the Security Council – the same Council that declined, in the first instance, to assist in the end of the Iraqi dictatorship – a poor option indeed, that would needlessly mire the prosecution of war crimes in international politics. The international fixation on alleged American wrongdoing is one more reason why the international courts are an inappropriate forum for judging the Iraqi regime.rnational politics”
Although the judicial process leading to the punishment was flawed “ the final verdict would have been no different even if the process had been allowed to drag on for years”
For more details of the above check it out at:
http://powerpresent.blogspot.com/2007/01/3-arrested-over-mocking-world-without.html
Where is the comparison to place Saddam Hussein on the same pedestal with Salahuddin Ayyubi and Gamal Nasser II? No doubt in death, he is more dangerous than alive.

What the difference between Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi, Ferdinand Marcos, Augusto Pinochet and Saddam Hussein? Are the Kurds in Southern Turkey any different from the Kurds in Northern Iraq? Justice in the name of humanity, or political alliance?

Average joe, i symphatise with you. i know you are sad that yr hero saddam is dead. Jus like for you, saddam was a hero , going by most opinions, he is also a great hero to many many muslims. He is being compared to the great's like saladin. I wish , there were more of him. Here is what 1 reader of malaysiakini wrote about him.

Between 1978-80: Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, whose ancestors were of Iranian origin, were packed in trucks and thrown out on Iranian border after their properties were all confiscated. Hundreds died in the cold winter with no place to find shelter. The teenage sons were kept in Iraqi jails and from 1992~1995 were all killed – no exceptions.

1983: A government campaign against members of the Barzani tribe (they helped launch an Iranian offensive in northern Iraq) resulted in 8,000 deaths who were buried in mass graves in the southern desert.

1986-1988: The scorched earth offensive called ‘Anfal’ resulted in chemical attacks on Kurds in northern Iraq seeking autonomy. Over 180,000 Kurds were killed (you, Mr ex-PM, would have seen the pictures that included graphic footage of mothers clutching their children in death poses as did the rest of the world).

1991: Government crackdowns on Shiite Muslims and Kurdish uprisings at the end of the Iran-Iraq war end. Over 60,000 were killed and buried in mass graves.

1992: Driving out the Marsh Arabs in southern Iraq by draining the marshlands on which they depended for their living. Several thousands were killed here.

1979-2003: Elimination of political prisoners by Saddam including Turkomans, religious Muslims and communists. Tens of thousands were killed, some buried in mass graves and some near prisons.

The above are official data coming out of investigations and also some interviews with next of kin some of whom never saw their loved ones come back from work, prison or detention. Here, in the US, we got to see a Japanese camera crew filming one of the many hundreds of unearthed mass graves in just one area in Iraq which had over 2,200 sets of remains carted away for identification.

Another episode showed distraught mothers and family members clutching a few bones which was all that were left of their long missing (and identified) son/father/husband. Ex-prisoners’ accounts of the torture they survived which left them incapacitated for life (during the early days of the Gulf War) revealed the real nature of Saddam’s ‘barbaric’ (to borrow your word, ex-prime minister) bent.

He would have his political prisoners dunked in a vat of acid after they were subject to electric shocks. Yet others spoke of his ‘worst enemies’ (suspected of not being loyal) being put through a commercial meat grinder very slowly while the lower parts of the abdomen were slowly ground up.

This is not taking into account the deaths from irag & iran war, that goes into millions . My sincere wish is for muslims to have their wish granted for more such heroes.

i think at the end of the aday, the principles of a FAIR TRIAL should be adhered to.

there were just too many elements in the trial that showed otherwise as described in Bunn's article.

yes, we think he is criminal yadda yadda...but THAT"S ONLY ONE SIDE OF THE STORY.

the side that the US has been feeding us ever since the first gulf war.

what is saddam's side of the story?
why do the iraqis love him?
yes, he was cruel, inhumane , etc but so are the AMericans, Germans, Japanese, etc when they wanted to conquer other nations to satisfy their imperialistic urges in WW1, WW2.

to me, this shows that all the talk by America + UK about justice, civil society etc are all just TALK.

the media created and hammered into our psyche a cruel and evil saddam for the past 15 years.

who is the REAL Saddam?
what is HIS story?

we will never know now.

Amazing! soooo many kooooky left wing fringe looooney comments here that I do not know where to start. You guys will put Chomsky to shame. I guess nothing I can write to convince you otherwise but for my own pleasure here goes... :)
- Taunting a mass murderer 'Moqtada Mogtada','go to hell' to Saddam is now considered torture and words alone of such is considered undignify for a butcher like Saddam! any of you have knowledge of how a fascist like Mussolini and his mistress was shot, hanged in a public square upside down and spit at in 1945. And btw, Saddam was treated well under US custody.

- Remember Milosevic?? Another butcher that the Western powers stopped in his genocide of Muslims in Bosnia? Died peacefully in his prison cell after years of 'Donkey Court' at Hague. No problems huh?? I'm sure the victims were glad he died peacefully in his sleep. We should be proud I guess when justice of such is served? Does anyone of you ppl have family, members and friends butchered and killed in the most gruesome manner.

- Go find a Kurd - maybe online and mentioned how shameful it was that Saddam was taunted before his death! A reminder,violence in Iraq is mainly in the 30km radius of Baghdad and there are peace and joy in other parts in Iraq.

- We M'sians are also barbarians !! We execute drugs traffickers to death by hanging and also whipping for others. How cruel and uncivilised a society we are huh. Shame on us. Please protest, march and show your anger whenever we execute criminals in our country??!! and then visit a family of the victim of the crime. You will maybe get a different opinion ???

- I've been following Bunn's articles in The Star for some time and anyone who feels his opinion is unbias and substantive should reevaluate oneself. Also, I guess Al-BBC, AL-CNN is the main source of news for you people. Also, notice the sources of news column in M'sian papers in the foreign section - The Nation, Guardian, AFP etc. fair and balance news source huh?? The end ...............

yes, he was cruel, inhumane , etc but so are the AMericans, Germans, Japanese, etc when they wanted to conquer other nations to satisfy their imperialistic urges in WW1, WW2

Would you get your facts straight? Since when the Americans were the ones who conquer other nations to sastify their imperialistic urges during WWI and WWII?

Seriously, there are lot of reason to dislike the United State's foreign policy and current administration but please restrain yourself from throwing false facts and dichotomy to support your argument.

Sure some Iraqis like Saddam and sure there are reason for Saddam to do what he did but does that absolve him from the act of genocide that he did? Of course not.

The trials was frought with problems and flaws. The question, did the flaws and problems prohibited Saddam Hussein from getting a fair trial? Does the swift execution say something else beside justice?

Hmm.... I'm trying very hard not to flip over with your deep knowledge of history. America's role in WW1? Only towards the end President Wilson abandoned their isolationist policy and entered the fray in a limited and actually tried to broker peace between the Germans and the British. On WW2, hmmmm, maybe a person of such high intelect and knowledge have heard of Pearl Harbour? If picking up a book is too heavy for you, maybe just spend 2 hours in catching a nice Hollywood production with nice soundtrack - a lot of boom boom bang bang might help. In terms of the Us being imperialistic ?? I wonder which country did they win a war and stayed to rule ? BTW, we might be speaking Japanese today without the Damn Yankees. Aligato ......

Well, to be fair, the US *did* occupy both Germany and Japan immediately after WWII. The occupations there were more successful, though, because the US government actually had a plan to get things up and running again and then get out of there - unlike in Iraq, where Bush clearly gave little thought to actually administrating the country after conquering it.

Ya, it's the Bush administration that's cocked up, not the Americans.

Was on Skype chatting with a collegue of mine on biz and then progress to other matters of interest! I referred her to this site to give her a flavour of some of the opinions in SEA and I think I just unintentionally converted a non-interested pacifist / appeaser Democrat to another right-wing gun blazing cowboy idiot religious freak evil nazi.... Republican Bush supporter. I'm not sure sometimes how to even start to response to some of the comments I read. Sometime back, Jeff has a link to Anwar's Q&A at Stanford U and one statement stood out. He mentioned that there's no SIGNIFICANT milestone in Malaysian history. How true it is but I'm pretty shocked with our reading of history as well. If you equate the US as an 'occupier' of Japan and Germany after the ruins of WW2 and with the introduction of the Marshall Plan to rebuild the old Europe and Japan, then what else is there to even discuss! I look back at the Tsunami, aid to Africa,the largest food donor in the world etc. and I wonder aloud - is a sense of gratitude missing somewhere. Whats next - debate on whether the holocaust ever occured (like the recent meeting of holocaust deniers in Iran)and the authenticity of the wacky conspiratorial Protocols of the Elders of Zion? One can oppose the war in Iraq but to equate Bush/Blair to Saddam and war criminals? Wow fascinating.... will lay off this site for a couple of weeks to regain my sanity. HNY 07 .....

Hey u guys dont get it do u ? Anything the muslims do to other muslims is ok, even heroic. Anything anyone else does ( esp west) , even if the intentions are right is wrong. So let us all wish that mulsims will get their wishes. may god grant them more saddams in Iran, Libya,syria,pakistan, uzbekistan, waziristan, turkmenistan,afghnistan saudia arabia and anywhere else where there are islamic govts. Hopefully the many muslims here will get the wish and god willing , malaysia might have a saddam too.