Screenshots

sometimes christian fanatics are very ANNOYING.
I will puke also...

somebody should give that guy a slap across his face seriously.

and thank god the government did a good job preventing these people showing off their xtian ego and recruiting more agents.

anyways I learned something from this post....
using the input/resources wisely and create a nice flow of output.

yin yang balance.

Jeff, at 10 grand a hit,that's a mighty expensive puke. What did you thow up anyway?

JEFF OOI says: I couldn't possibly afford the dinner ticket. I was there as a blogger, the only invited blogger I reckon.

If anyone was awake, all the lovey dovey went out the window, it appears that Soros is still capable of poking at Tun M's ethos of using Petronas money as a sugar daddy of the nation.

Please the rest of Francis Yeoh's speech!

“Truth” that I have seen to date is relative. I don’t deny the fact that “truth” may be out there but I have not seen any convincing signs of it. I have scrutinized true/false statements about many theological and moral “truths”, yet I found no evidence of those “truths” that can be proven absolutely! How then can it be absolute?

Relative truth vs absolute truth. Its amazing what money does to one's brains. I suppose next the concept of relative lies and absolute lies will be spouted to "explain" why things are the way they are by these self declared "leaders" as they deliberate on the future well being of the undeserving underclass, whilst chewing their premium air-flown aged chilled rare cut of bovine muscle and sipping vintage first growths.

Such self serving hippocracy from a self professed God fearing man is astounding if only one really believes his religious tendencies. Personally, this makes me want to believe in God, for only if I believe can I hope that the same God will do the necessary to put such people in their place, and preferably sooner rather than later.

Everything is so warped, crooked, and bent, its difficult to see straight anymore, hence, truth becomes relative.

So it seems "truth is relative" becomes a convenient carpet for our 'dignitaries' to sweep the dirt under. If they understood what Soros was talking about they can still shamelessly pretend not to, as they have been doing so, for as long as we care to remember. The promises of more transparency have been given with one hand but the other hand holds a roll of barb wire and not too shy at showing it threateningly. All touted in the name of security and peace while they continue to rob the rakyat in the guise of more tolls and taxes.

Thats the way I see it as happening in this country. Nothing happy to be caroling about. The spirit that's keeping us, long-suffering citizens, up seems to be coming from our own inner resources.

paying ten grand a table to listen to Soros, a person who have not founded nor governed a reputable listed company, never mind a nation, speak is ridiculous.people like Soros made money shorting/betting on exchange rates (stocks and currency and commodities such as oil) and put thousands in misery due to fluctuations he and his cronies (other hedge funds) do for a living.
There is no transparency on how these hedge funds work and where they obtain their money from. So why should we listen to these bunch of hypocrites.

First of all, to the first commenter, please show some respect for Christians. Name-calling just reflects badly on yourself.

Having said that, Francis Yeoh has made a serious philosophical blunder. When he says "there is only relative truth" he is implying that "all truth is relative". He is a making a postmodernist assertion -- and given his background, one can understand why.

The statement that "All truth is relative" is self-referentially inconsistent, because if it includes itself, then the statement itself is relative and not necessarily a true statement. If it excludes itself, then it is positing an absolute while denying absolutes exist. Therefore a contradiction arises, and that statement cannot be true. This sort of the statement is so naïve but people repeat the mantra all the time because they don't think about the logical implications.

Christians actually believe truth IS NOT relative, because truth has a central referent. Francis Yeoh is quite clearly misrepresenting Christianity with his statements.

This has nothing to do with Christianity. Mr. Yeoh really had no need to introduced himself that way. So pathetic.

The truth cannot have relative type, only absolute one. All should be open-minded to new concepts. You may refuse to accept but you cannot restrict others from delivering them. Talk about young democracy, sensitivity and limits but there is no standard governing them. Khairy spoke of limits and sensitivity but he obviously set his limit higher than the limits applicable to others during his Umno assembly speech.

Obviously, they did not care how sensitive others could have felt during national airing of UMNO assembly.

Hnnh...cakap saje pandai. Semua pun dia yang cakap. Boleh, tak boleh pun seorang yang cakap. Betul, salah pun dengarkan nya juga.

If there is nothing hanky-panky behind the curtains, why fear of transparency which could in turn eliminate resource curse?

How many years more Malaysians can hide themselves from the 'absolute truth'? Does our land still has enough resources to support a malfunctioning country after blatant/uncontrolled extraction during all these years under the BN gov? Many signs are already warning of the depletion while most Malaysians still think that it is gonna be 'tak apa' until their distant future generations.

Oil: Najib said 2009 is the year to watch while the fact is petronas already has declining production since 2005(peak oil..). Local oilfield services company are already moving('diversifying' or IPO oversea).

Gas: Thank god we still have plenty. But how much has the BN government done to take advantage of this mother nature gift instead of plainly exporting as raw LNG? BTW, Singaporean petrochemical industry grows a few folds higher than ours.

Lumber: The most depleted resource. Several environmental NGOs worldwide already issued 'final warning' regarding to the deforestation in Malaysia.

Palm oil/rubber: The last rescue tube? No wonder *some ppl* want to 'merge' 3 rescue tubes into a big one for themselves. You and me are not gonna have a chance to hold on it.

Mining(tin/copper/iron): n/a (forget about them)

Oh please... those who condemn christian, wake up and have some respect to other's religion.

Get to know the person himself before speculating him. Francis Yeoh always take pride of his religion. This is not his first time speaking publicly he being Christian. Do you all take pride with your religion and share your religious values?

On the matter of Oil & Gas.
I'm in the O&G industry, and the oil & gas industry is indeed growing-slowly. Most of the on-going oil platform has been pumping towards depletion. There is huge need for oil exploration to discover more oils offshore our coast. Foreign companies are asked to do so and invited for exploration. Govt. can earn some royalty in the end. Petronas is moving overseas for exploration. To own more market share overseas. The activities in East Malaysia has been strong lately for oil exploration, looking for new oilfields. It is the matter of, do we still stand chance to strike oil soon enough? It takes rather a month or two for a complete seismic survey, just to know if there is oil or not. So yeah, that's my input.

lol..nice
when some makciks and aunties in rural..oowh..wait..even in urban areas are finding it hard to getfew extra ringgit to put a meal on the table, this rich guys just paid rm10K to have hteir 'dinner'.. lol how funny.. i would have puked as well jeeff, but more on their plate..

rich bastards who care less of those unfortunates

I was wondering why all those who are fanatics about their religion, can't just shut up and not tell others about what religion they are in? Do you think the audience cares and will give you more points for being from a certain faith? Should we all clap because of him being from that faith? I feel it is hypocrisy that when you do something good you must tell others that you are from this or that religion.

Keep religion out of this.

yo eworthing

please read my post properly and carefully.

I am refering to FANATIC christians (and also xtian xtremist, the annoying types)

not average christians nor rational christians. (those who can think twice and respect people of other faith)

I hope you read my comment properly next time.

and yes I agree with merdeka. merdeka echos my messege very well. it doesnt make that speaker look intellectual and what he achieved is making people feel very ANNOYED. he lost peoples respect towards him (look at Jeff Oois reaction)

sadly this sort of fanatical xtians are quite common in our society nowadays.

It would be fun if someone can ask Francis whether “Relative Truth is for us, Absolute Truth is for God” is a relative truth or absolute truth. Either way, contradiction will occur.

Oh well, forget it, I don't think he gets the question anyway. What can a businessman offer us, when it comes to philosophy or theology?

Nothing, just trash.

The 'real world' is irrefutable, inerrable. If any model we design contains a paradox or contradiction, then that model is wrong. With that in mind, look at the phrase 'truth is relative' and you would understand that it is descriptive in nature.

Francis Yeoh have grossly misuse that particular phrase and contradicts himself with a self-confession in being a christian. Not only that, he used that phrase to excuse himself or any other from seeking the truth. Is he advocating hiding more skeletons in the closet? Is that why you puke Jeff?

Its interesting to see George Soro's transformation from amoral capitalist to the darling of the American left. It doesn't make any difference..George Soros Version 2 still makes my skin crawl.
As for oil depletion, its inevitable, but the rate of decline depends on whether any new discoveries are found. What is more important is the proceeds from this one-time resource be managed wisely and not just burned away. Incidentally, Brunei burned away much of its accumulated oil earnings, some $ 28 Billion US Dollars ($ 106 Billion Ringgit !) when its principal investment company collapsed in 1998.
At least Brunei admitted it, and has hopefully put in place mechanisms to control the money more wisely. What has happened to Petronas's accumulated earnings is completely opaque in Malaysia.

Truth is truth, there is no distinction between what is relative and absolute. Therefore, there is no qualification, otherwise, there is no truth..... Semantics has no place here. I suppose when one has made the money by whatever means, he stands to say that there is relative truth and absolute truth. The question we should our Mr. Yeoh what is bugging him that he has to make a distinction ?

If this is logical then, the next question one will have to ask, do one make money the honest way or through the crooked way such as being a crony?

The next point i like to make, do not tell us all those craps of how the country has developed and progressed, but at what price?

The rich are not marginalized but ask the ordinary folks on the street, do they feel the same anyway?

“There's only relative truth. Relative truth is for us, absolute truth is for God. So, let's not waste time to seek truth, because..."
Francis Yeoh is a pragmatist and he views “truth” as relative. But can he and his old man categorically denied that they have NOT gained their fortunes by political pull, by having government grant those favors and franchises at the expense and sufferings of their fellow-men. Tell the truth, God is watching and has the absolute truth in your “wealth”
Many of us do incorporates the philosophy of pragmatism in our truths, what we believe, are based upon your experiences; and as they hold to be efficient we hold them to be truthful but this view of efficiency is distorted. For a further read, check it out at:

http://powerpresent.blogspot.com/2006/12/no-truth-within-pragmatism-truths-are.html

Lol Jeff if you can afford a table for RM10,000, Im sure you can afford to buy a new PC.

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for sharing the report with us.

Citizen journalism to the fore!

Regards

in Malaysia we all stand in unity for the country.

Huh? Unity? ROFL. Perhaps cronies unity. Let's talk about the "caste" system in "bumiputera" itself : Where political link people has more "right" compare to non political link. And also ethnic link to UMNO has more rights than "bumiputera" ethnics such as Iban, Dayak,Kadazan,Dusun,etc.

"Natural resources belong to the people. Governments are just the managers (of these resources), so the people have absolute rights to question on the issues of revenue and payment derived from the extractive activities,"

I love this quote.....it voices out the concerns of most of Malaysia in what the government is doing with Petronas' money.

I wish Soros could actually point out that this is the case with the trees in Taman Pertanian Shah Alam as well as the forests in Sabah.

moo_t,

they all have the same rights, it's just whether or not they are given the resources to make use of those rights, which is what the Malays have in advantage. Each and every Malay knows someone who knows someone who knows a politician or a person of power and influence in various political parties.

It has nothing to do with caste in Bumiputeras. It's everything to do with connections.

By the way, where's my datukship? :)

As I said somewhere else, Francis Yeoh can afford to sponsor the 10k per table. In fact he can afford even more! He had been presented with the best IPP deal ever given in the whole world.
If it's any consolation to those who begrudge the exclusivity of the dinner, bear in mind, that you too in your own small way, are also paying for it. Every time you switch on your lights or electrical appliance, think Francis Yeo, with his bowl, taking money from your hands.

LJ

I think for Francis Yeoh to announce that he was the one that sponsored the dinner was very unethical and shows extremely poor taste.
In spite all the trappings of wealth, class seems to have eluded him. Reminds me of Datuk Zakariah Deros, except on a larger scale.

LJ

there is so many VVIPs and 'smart peoples' around. why our current PM is not there? i wonder....

cheh, ritz carlton malaysia is owned by YTL lah. 10k? doubt tat

I have always been under the impression that the"definition" of truth is "constant", something that cannot be changed,altered, amended under any and all circumstances to suit anyone purpose, cannot be rationalised.Religion and race has nothing to do with truth.

According to Jeff Francis Yeoh said:"I sponsor tonight's dinner for everyone so I think I deserve to speak.

I am a Christian-Malaysian. Let me tell you, Mr Soros, in Malaysia we all stand in unity for the country. And thank God, our country has progressed very well as you can see for yourself...

There's only relative truth. Relative truth is for us, absolute truth is for God. So, let's not waste tome to seek truth, because..."

From what I read when referring himself as a Malaysian Christian, the context seems to suggest the diversity that exists in the country rather and yet the unity rather than because he is Christian and therefore ...That statement seems to be a counter to some other proposition about the state of harmony in the country maybe and to me, from the minimal information provided by Jeff suggests to me that Francis is only setting himself up as an example of the diversity that he himself is bringing to the table where non-believers of his faith also sit.

The next part of Francis' statment about truth, I relly don't know how the link is made fromt thei rist sentence to this to suggest in any way that his Christianity provides a basis for the truth in the statement he makes about "truth".

Jeff, sometimes you put yourself on a high pedastal in making judgements thinking you have absolute knowledge or something. But here is one instance you have goofed.

When you say you puked, that suggests something that was puke inducing in what Francis said. You put two different parts and out of context statements together, leading or attempting to lead us into a line of thinking that the basis of Francis' statment about truth derives from or has as its basis his Christian leanings or believes or what ever and and concluding that to oblivion by puking on it.

All that you have done, Jeff, is labeled it without even bothering to connect the dots. I would really like to see Francis' entire statement to see the context for which he makes his "I am a Malaysian Christian" admission and how he enjoins that to his comment on truth!

I enter this debate with trepidation and reluctance -- trepidation cos the name of God (and Truth) is involed, reluctance cos I know what I write will ruflle many feathers.

It's another gathering of star-studded mortals with one person paying RM1,000 -- which could amountto one household's expenses in Negaraku. I'm writing longish to set the right setting to anchor my write today, inspired because of the highly convicted thoughts, some at opposite ends, that Francis'Christian "declaration" had opened up.

I got pulled in once upon a time by a New-found Christian to attend a similar dinner-witnessing by a corporate leader -- RM30-a-plate, again I attended "reluctantly" (for a friend's sake!) because to me a "church function" must be öpen " even to a beggar with not a shirt on his back and a penny to his name".
Subsequent invitations by my "friend"were turned down because If I were to ask "hard questions"of a particuklar invitee-speaker, it would have caused pandemonium to break out eg Q ünsasked but in my mind"__ Mr ..., now you have become a born-again Christrian preaching the faith, how about telling us how yiou still manage a "millionaire's lifestyle"and yet you had not settled "millions of losses"caused to failed cooperatrives. Would an act of repentance require a first act "to undo the damage"done to those neighbours you have caused grief to?"

So to these elitist tycoons like Francis Yeoh, my simple question is: Did George Soros speak of "truth"in the real worl or was he touching on Absolute truth to issues like Christian salvation?

If it's the former, there is NO REASON for your declaration of your religious inclination. If George Soros did touch on "salvatïon"-- which is possible though not likely, Jeff can witness to Desi on this point? -- then as a man who has seen much of the world with such exquisite tastes of Pavarottu et al , you seem to have committed a faux pax, but you are the host, ain't it, so who's to condemn? Jeff --my AP, not the RM-gen type! for such a long piece, but like you, I almost pouke even jest reading your report. Had I been present at the function, I would have asked for a re-fun-D! to be subject to abuses not on the menu.

I have refrained from commenting on what Francis Yeoh reported said, in large part because what Jeff posted was only a short portion, perhaps too short to get the proper context for the words posted.

But there is one immediate reaction to the posted words which I had, which I think is likely have been in the proper context. I think for Yeoh to say "I sponsor tonight's dinner for everyone so I think I deserve to speak" is quite simply in bad taste.

(I agree with you, LJ!)

Yes, he may have been a generous sponsor, but to try to leverage on that to "deserve" the right to speak? Not on in my book. Give generously for a good cause and do not spoil it by declaring that you figure it buys you the right to speak. It does not.

Indeed, if I was one of the guests that night, I would have seriously considered writing Yeoh a cheque to reimburse him the cost of my seat at the do, and walked out of the room while he was speaking.

I also do not agree with Yeoh's "There's only relative truth. Relative truth is for us, absolute truth is for God. So, let's not waste tome to seek truth, because..." especially when he had preceeded that with the declaration that he is a "Christian-Malaysian". That tends to imply that his statement has the stamp of Christian approval, whether Yeoh intended it to be such or not.

But I would be more comfortable with reading more of Yeoh's entire speech before I form my own final opinion about his stance. Perhaps Yeoh's church elders and leaders may want to counsel him. And Yeoh is answerable personally to God for his words and actions.

There is no reason for Mr Yeoh to profess his faith, but he chose to. For those who felt 'uncomfortable' with what he professed, I'm sorry you got to deal with it. What is so wrong for a man to declare his faith?

Like a few commentators before me, I'll refrain from further comments because we do not know his speech in entirety.

A man is entitled to his opinion. Mr Yeoh wasn't talking Christian doctrine, he's merely expressing his views. Whether his view is right or flawed is open for debate, afterall, how many of us dare say we got everything right? It is not right to hold Mr Yeoh to a certain legalistic high ground just because he's a Christan.. and especially a wealthy one.

For TM to say after meeting Soros that he takes his word that he did not directly caused our Rinngit to fall,makes me ask this question ' When Mahatir was our Pm and he told us that Soros did it he was not well informed? If so as PM he did a bad job to mislead us !
My take is 'relative truth' which equals unabridged Lie!
Whatever FY has to say I KNOW I am paying through my nose for his electricity as well as the Highway concessionaires for their obsence profits while driving through all these Tolls.Thanks TM you did a great job !

According to the 'Theory of Relativity' by A Enstein, time is relative. For example, kissing a girl is a short sweet time and sitting on a hot pan is a long painful time, even though both probably lasted seconds. Perhaps to FY, moving with the flow of time is a relative truth. And he leaves the absolute truth of his movement consequences to God. Then again, you don't need God for the absolute truth, because time will define the absolute truth. For the time being, you, me and him will have our own relative truths. Like FY said don't waste too much time on it. Every action has its destiny.

Relativity Theory Discussion

Francis Yeoh: "Do you know that truth is relative?"

Einstein: "You mean, to some people who has low demands, it appear as truth, but so some other people who has higher demands, it appear as lie?"

Einstein: "Of course I know. I got similar experiment. You should read up my Relativity Theory. Normal people thinks the relative speed of light is dependent on the reference point. You know what... I think it is a constant. Those people think if they move the measurement instrument towards the light source, the speed of light would appear faster and vice versa. I think no matter what you do, how you measure it, the speed of light is always constant."

Francis Yeoh: "What do you mean? What has that got to do with my theory?"

Einstein: "No matter how you twist and spin, truth is always truth, lie is always lie."

In my opinion, if truth is relative and not a constant, then it is a very convenient way to cheat.

richL:

Dr M may not exactly be my favourite person, but I think saying he "did a bad job to mislead us" may be somewhat too harsh. Misinformed yes.

But now that he has "accepted Soros' explanation that he wasn't involved in the currency attacks that Malaysia suffered during the 1997/98 Asian Financial Crisis" (as Jeff put it), has Dr M apologised for painting Soros in such a bad light in 1997/1998?

Unless I have missed something, Dr M had not yet said sorry for saying all those nasty things about Soros. Nasty things which even today, I have read some Malaysians repeating as if they are true.

Can someone tell me why that when a born again Christian became a millionair, he conclude he got to where he is today because of God? What about YOUR OWN EFFORT?

My own brother, got his PhD in Oz and became a born again; he decided it is his duty to convert as many sinners as possible. So one day he visted my dear father in Hat Yai and spent a long time trying to brain washed our dad. The wise old man just kept quite and took everything in THEN he asked my highly educated Dr brother of mine, "My son, you are what you are today; is it because I support you through your university studies to become a PhD or was it BECAUSE OF GOD?"
Guess what, my brother DARE NOT answer! Ha ha ha...

"When the mind is at peace,
the world too is at peace.

Nothing real, nothing absent.

Not holding on to reality,
not getting stuck in the void,you are neither holy or wise, just
an ordinary fellow who has completed his work.

– Layman Pang-yun

Offtopic:

vital9,

Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity predicted that time does not flow at a fixed rate: moving clocks appear to tick more slowly relative to their stationary counterparts. Einstein is talking about the physical/material world and not in the psychological sense. He and Gallileo postulate that all observers will always measure the speed of light to be the same no matter what their state of uniform linear motion is.

Therefore, your analogy is wrong. Yeoh's "truth is relativity" deals with the domain of philosophy and theology. To claim it has anything to do with science is ridiculous. Its merely pseudoscience.

Correct me if I'm wrong, in my opinion this is what Jeff puke at:

Soros urge all governments to improve the governance on the extractive industries, and to ensure transparency and accountability.

His rationale for that is to tell the truth about how Nature's riches are extracted and wealth derived are spent for mankind.

Here is Francis Yeoh's rationale for his disagreement:

There's only relative truth. Relative truth is for us, absolute truth is for God. So, let's not waste tome to seek truth, because...

Absolutely ridicilous.

Uh, minor nitpick: the ellipsis ("...") between the paragraph about Yeoh's religion and the paragraph about truth indicates that some irrelevant content has been cut. It's quite possible that Yeoh's statement about truth did not immediately follow his declaration of religion.

Every part of the YTL portion of post made me sick.

"I sponsor tonight's dinner for everyone so I think I deserve to speak."

Arghh... no you don't deserve to speak. You shouldn't have spoken if you had to say this:

"I am a Christian-Malaysian. Let me tell you, Mr Soros, in Malaysia we all stand in unity for the country. And thank God, our country has progressed very well as you can see for yourself..."

ARghhhhhhhhh!!!! What has your religion got to do with anything...?!

"There's only relative truth. Relative truth is for us, absolute truth is for God. So, let's not waste tome to seek truth, because...""

................

Goddamn he just wasted everyone's time. Couldn't they find a better sponsor so he couldn't nominate himself to speak?

"I sponsor tonight's dinner for everyone so I think I deserve to speak."

The statement above could very well be an "opening joke", like so many speaker's have done, just to break the ice a bit. The context and tone when it is uttered carry very different implications. I think is unwise to judge a man based on a few selectively extracted statements.

Dear Patriot :
Perhaps you should learn the better Europe/Western "speech manners" before drawing a statement such as
The statement above could very well be an "opening joke

In a speech, there is a different betweeen humour and kitsch. For example, "if one cannot afford to eat bread, why not ask them to eat cakes". Please tell me this is a jokes.

Many people do not understand relativity...be in the physical or philosopical realm. I wish everything can be clearly black and white, blue sky and ocean. Take Soros, he damaged and destroyed many economies with his money speculation and that was the evil truth related to his action. Today, he is a good guy, an philanthropist and it is today related truth. Can his actions today compensate what he have done in the past...God only knows and time will tell. FY should not be the target of relative truths, because his actions are both good and bad to different people. People who practised absolute truth, like unrepented corruption and crimes, should be the scourge of our contempt. JO puked, probably, in his own right, he practises an absolute truth that fair play is fair play, and we do lack such individual. By the way, it takes a Big Deal to confess to be a Christian in today Malaysia Political Climate. OKT and SV should also profess their religion in public, for the sake of Malaysia religion harmony.

Dude,

That statement "I am a Christian-Malaysian. Let me tell you, Mr Soros, in Malaysia we all stand in unity for the country. And thank God, our country has progressed very well as you can see for yourself..." Maybe he could have been redundant in order for small minds to understand the gist of what he was saying and stated instead, " I am a Christian Malaysian. Siting Next to me is a Muslim Malaysian, there taking pictures is Jeff Ooi a Buddhist, and over there is my friend the sikh, and just there is Arumugam, a hindu,...Let me tell you, Mr Soros, in Malaysia we all stand in unity for the country."..Now does that communicate to you what that statement appears to be? He surely did not suggest in anyway in that statement that the unity is derived from his being a Christian. Unfortunately there seem to be some here who cannot seem to be able to operate with redundancies being taken out of statements.

As for his opening about he having sponsored the event or whatever...I am sure the attending audience probably already knew that as a matter of fact as it may have already been printed in any of the invitation or brochures or flyers or even on the bunting in the front...or maybe he may have already been thanked by other organisers for the sponsorship earlier so that that statement would not have been anything that the audience he was addressing did not already know. That being the case, if you guys cannot get the jest in whch it was made, and to a certain extent self deprecating as well..then really you guys may not have been there yet to understand the context of such statements. I have used almost identical statements, which if printed subsequently without background information may have made me look cheap. But the context in which I would have put it to my immediate audience would have been more self deprecating than would it have been a boast or a brag. That statement taken out of that audience and without the required background information would certainly lead one like Jeff to puke, and others to nauseate and who knows, some to riot too. I have heard some VVIPs say things which just cannot be printed without first providing the background.

So much fuss, all because of a spin that obviously quotes some things that were said wihtout any background information just so minds can be left to wonder wide and far. I wonder if that was responsible.

Oh BTW. I was not there at the event. I don't know Francis Yeoh and I don't care for him either.

It is understandable that Jeff puked. Most decent amongst the audience would. Can't we all smell the stench of LTY's hypocritical mouthings. How dare he use God's name. These brood of vipers sting the same way and spread their poison blatantly in public. YTL, you can bluff your fellow born-once-more fat cats, but not us who work to earn a living to put food on the table, without any PATRONAGE. If you have any pride (I paid for this dinner)left, you should jump from your tallest building and lets see if God will lend a helping hand. Bleeeaaaaahhh.

The context is actually explained in this blog. Malaysia is not ready to commit to EITI, the transparency initiatives. Soros pushed for this. He urged malaysians to demand for this transparency (the absolute truth). During his turn to grab the mike, Yeoh introduced himself as a christian, (and probably there are other races and religions in this country), that "we all" stand in unity (no need to seek the absolute truth), meaning malaysia can progress very well even without joining EITI (rakyat only need to know the relative truth). Okay, there maybe corruptions, but relatively we are doing fine. So, no need to seek the absolute truth, relative truth should do for us (malaysians).

I would understand his argument from the business point of view, I would do the same thing if someone wants me to declare all my cash flow. But, to say that "In malaysia, we all stand in unity", was he trying to represent the malaysian citizen or just the businessmen? maybe he was talking on behalf of the government?

streetz,
I think you've managed to cut through all that BS and hit the bull in the eye.

One wonders why of all things Soros chose to talk about the need for transparency and accountability in the mining industries at that dinner in this country.

Maybe seeing the KLCC had something to do with it. Perhaps he wanted to sum up what was the main thing driving the Malaysia engine and wanted to hint something. Too many of the countries with oil wealth have fallen by the wayside, the result of the resource curse. They wasted not only the natural resource but also the wealth of future generations. They destroyed in the present all that could be in the future and brought not just the resource curse but also the curse of future generations who will have to bear the price of leakages and corruption born of wealth from the land squandered by the hands of a few.

Was he thinking about Indonesia when he sounded the need for good governance practices in that Malaysian event? Was he trying to leave a message that unless we pull up our socks with regards transparency and accountability, we will go the same way as Indonesia and other countries whose governments think that the oil windfall was some divine gift that they had earned, and therefore open to reap, pluck and plunder?

That such a message came from a jewish speculator who once played like a whale in a sea of ikan bilis, drowning thousands all over the world, shouldn't in any way reduce its importance. Neither should he be given more credit just because he had used his profits to pursue some causes. We should just read his message for what its value was.

He hinted something that everyone in this country concerned with the future of Malaysia should take greater note of. Our oil is running out and yet there is no transparency and accountability on how it is being tapped and used - that wealth belongs to all the rakyat; that wealth comes from mother earth; that wealth gives gain of higher development but also pain of environmental denudation. And this government is just a custodian of it - so why the blackhole approach (all light goes in, nothing comes out)?

As for TopCat, one also wonders if there are so few talents in this country that someone who has lost almost thirty B has to be the one appointed finance minister. Really, after almost half a century of independence, don't we have better choices for financial wizards? Says something, doesn't it?

As for Yeoh, he should just get to the point and start his speech on something like, ur, Open Tenders. Now, that would be interesting, perhaps even worth a centime of the ten K dinner. But of course if he had done that, we would have a bigger laugh at his expense right now; also we would possibly be missing eworthing's smooth logical demolition of that billionaire's thought process.

One also finds it odd why people will take every opportunity to proselytise their personal faith at gatherings where they would know for sure there are others of other faiths. A belief in God/Allah/TheUnseenOne etc. is not about which soccer team is better on the implied basis of material wealth, personal achievement, lifetime awards. To bring the competitiveness of the corporate world into the domain of holiness is not only bad taste, weak education and a lack of culture but also stumped intelligence. Where is anyone in this world without direct or indirect support from everyone else in this world? Whatever the faith?

The Francis Yeohs, Rafidah Azizes, Mohd Noh Omars, Paddy Bowies and so on of this country shouldn't be in such a hurry to try to earn bunny points from appearing to defend what they think are the high honours of our country; for one, the honours are not high, for two, they don't carry themselves with sensitive urbaneness, for three, they insult the intelligence of those who face stark realities everyday while these socalled leaders continue to live in their own cocooned and operatic worlds.

I write this one for the poor young malay man standing there on the pavement yesterday morning trying to sell some honey in home-filled bottles. And he will never in his life get to ride in his PM's new turkish-made m-million yacht.

Neil, you hit it right at the spot.

These people really insult the intelligence AND the hardships that normal people face daily. After years of siphoning money from the people (both Soros and Francis Yeoh), now they decide to play angels?

Their unappreciative tone to the Malaysian people does not help either.

I am writing this for Pak Lah whose 30M yacht is not as good as some other leaders'. Malaysians should give more so our PM and his family can enjoy extra benefits. They definitely need to be accorded the best wealth. The rakyat does not need much, compared to them.

Oh my. I was afraid of this.

First,

Big Government + Religiosity + Big Business = Vulnerability to Fascist Propaganda.

Second , my invitation to follow your bliss to find ‘Bubbles of the Relative dancing as waves on the ocean of the Absolute”.

Third ,here it comes..

The deepest level of creation is the Absolute. It is the sometimes dubbed the unified field, if you like. Einstein while he may have expounded relativity, believed in it but couldn’t prove it empirically. He said once that god doesn’t play dice. It’s Vedic and Buddhist philosophy it’s the eternal Self, that is unchanging. The Self or ‘Brahman’ ( Vedic Sanskrit) that is unchanging, beyond time , beyond space , it is unmanifest, formless yet the basis of all change, forms and diversity. Yet it its nature is that it doesn’t itself change.

The French mathematician Pascal once said the change is the only constant in nature. True. Yet Non-change in the Absolute is the basis of the Relative , the field of all eternal change. ‘Buddhism today is the opposite of what the Buddha taught, Lord Buddha’s teaching in fact correlated the absolute fled of existence with the relative states of existence. Hence we have natural law, and ‘do unto others what you will have do unto you’. The is the law of karma simply put.

Yet nearly all law is has both degrees of localized value, and non-localized vales. At the extremes we have universal law. Localized values are more subject to change in time and space. From a quantum mechanical perspective , they are short cycled and narrow scope vectors. The deepest aspect of creation is beyond natural law by virtue of being transcendent , unmanifest, and beyond concepts and which is at the level of the creator.

Christianity , Judaism and Islam as Abrahamanic religions take the absolute view of nature and tend to espouse absolutisms in that both localized values and universal values are not just tightly coupled or correlated , but are in fact one and the same. Once size fits all , unity not in diversity but in homogeneity. Unity is equal to uniformity. That’s why Christianity and Islam are ‘converting’ religions, and claim exclusiveness. Absolutism means no relatives at all. In this respect Francis Yeoh isn’t very Christian. Francis is I believe Catholic, and thus even more internally inconsistent with his professed religion

His pragmatic Oriental underpinning has shown more dominance that his claimed religiosity. At best there is appears to be a tightly coupled synchrony with one monolithic linear cognition of natural law which characterize the Abrahamanical religions hence they are absolutists who will tolerate some degree of context and interpretation. Thus the Christian reformation or moderate Islam. At worse, its absolute all the way and fundamentalist with literal interpretations of the holy texts. No context at all.

Whereas Eastern philosophy extols spirituality over religiosity. That means subjective, personal and private experience ever public proclamation. Hence absolute is internal and private , while relativism is allowed its free play and is indeed seen as the actions of the creator. Once is merely a witness in enlightenment of the creator’s play including the illusion of the ego. The creator and the Self are one in Unity. Relativity is not denied but appreciated even more, and then transcended. This is for me is a more matured perspective in that that it allows change, diversity and progressive higher levels of unification in evolution. This the only means to allow unity in diversity as opposed to unity equaling uniformity in the absolutist Abrahamanic traditions.

In the Eastern spiritual traditions, the Self is transcendental. And the relative is accepted. The Eastern paradigm even accommodates the western Judaic-Christian –Islamic one , where God is Absolute, called Jehovah, or Allah beyond time and space, beyond description as all descriptions are in relative. The major distinction is that Vedic philosophy and Taoism have the goal of all evolution as apprehending the Unity of the Absolute in the Relative, Brahman is seen underlying all creation in the relative, as it is said in the Bhagavad Gita. Unboundedness is seen behind the boundaries. The Absolute is unbounded and the relative is bounded.

The path is effortless and natural, volitional and yet blissful. No need for dogma. eternal bliss is there all the times time is illusion. Going further than the Abrahamanic traditions Vedic and eastern spirituality allow the localized natural values to changing and evolve. The wholeheartedly y embrace the relative. God is in everything, everything is in God. The change value allows for the expansion of the relative, therefore ever increasing diversity as a given, leading to progressively higher levels of unification in vedic philosophy. This is called Vedanta. The Absolute then has by infinite intelligence designed the system of expansion and contraction to finds itself in the relative. The challenge then in evolution is to discover the absolute in the relative. This is the fuel of the mechanics of creation where creator and the created, the play of hide and seek at a cosmic level. Enligtenemtn in unity consciousness beyond heaven which by the way is also a relative construct is the culmination. . This is ‘Tat Tvam Asi’ all this is that, and all that is this, from here to here, in your Self. Bubbles of the relative dancing as waves on the ocean of the Absolute.

I am not a typsit and its late here im my time zone Plase interpolate above text with missing words and characters, and ignore repeated ones. Please excuse me.

Sorry meant in 2nd para above:

‘Buddhism today is the opposite of what the Buddha taught, Lord Buddha’s teaching in fact correlated the absolute FIELD of existence with the relative states of existence.

And in 5th para above...
Whereas Eastern philosophy extols spirituality over religiosity. That means subjective, personal and private experience OVER public proclamation.

I forgot to add. That unity in diversity is operationalized in vedic philosophy by the human nervous system and all of creation to integrate progressive change in the relative by higher-order unification.

This is an evolutionary law found in mathematics,astrophysics and biology. Coherence and even on a mundane level social coherence, is then born of diversity, not homogeneity. Otherwise why should be creation and the infinite change chracterizing the relative at all?

I forgot to add. That unity in diversity is operationalized in vedic philosophy by the human nervous system and all of creation to integrate progressive change in the relative by higher-order unification.

This is an evolutionary law found in mathematics,astrophysics and biology. Coherence and even on a mundane level social coherence, is then born of diversity, not homogeneity. Otherwise why should there be creation and the infinite change chracterizing the relative at all?

Also integration comes only after differentiation. Without differentiation its meaningless to speak of integration. Integration is not uniformity.

Philosophies,theologies and religions that don't recognize this are inherently doomed to extinction.

Folks

If you want to know what Soros is doing with his money in the US, read here below on this link (this is an article written by a former speech writer for the Israeli Govt):

http://newscompass.blogspot.com/2006/12/israel-imbedded-in-american-politics.html

Folks

Francis Yeoh is a God-fearing fool.

A born-again fool for opening his mouth about God.

I venture to guess that Soros made his pile without going to the synagogue calling for God Jehovah or calling upon Moses to help out with his finances.

That's the whole trouble with Malaysian-Christians, trying to be more religious than other Christians or Jews. (Soros is Jewish, by the way)

Jeff : Relative truth is for us. Absolute truth is for God

Stanley : Is what you said absolutely right?

Jeff : Of course.

Stanley : You just contradicted yourself. You are human, incapable of absolute truth.

What Francis said is called a Paradox. It does not hold water under Logic 101 or Philosophy 101.

First of all, all these debates of relative and absolute truths are akin to much ado over nothing.

When FY made his speech, he was probably high on red wine and it is common for him to sound ridiculous, according to people whom is close to him.

Anyway, to ridicule him based on the few sentences Jeff posted is a little overdoing. On his statement that he sponsored the dinner, this is untrue. What FY did was some donation to the LSE building fund, of which the dinner was part of the fund raising activity. A dinner that cost 1k per pax doesnt need any sponsors!

Relative truth or not, this guy and his family have made YTL one of the best companies in terms of shareholders return in Malaysia. And that benefits the goverment-linked investment funds and retail investors like me who believe in his business ingenuity.

The absolute truth is how much you have in your bank account and your pocket.

Al

All this talk of relative truth and absolute truth is a waste of band space... and certainly not on a socio-political blog like this.

Best this out of this world topic discussed in some other religious blog or website. Here is one:

http://groups.msn.com/MalaysianMethodistCommunity

People like Francis Yeoh should pour his compassion for God on these kind of religious websites instead. Graceful performance in an economic forum talking to a Jewish guy like Soros.

Perhaps Jeff needs to explain why he puked.

Let's not take the Christian thing out of context. He's merely qualifying his subsequent statements. He doesn't go finish his spill and then say, "oh by the way, I'm Christian Malaysian". He's being fair to his audience. He's letting people know his opinions/standpoint stems from this identity of his.

I reckon Francis Yeoh's one of the only people in Malaysia that can be bold and respected enough to proclaim his faith in arenas like these.

One's faith should affect their entire lives, and not limited to religious events/buildings.

On relative truth, maybe what he meant was that if there was an absolute truth determined by higher power, every other truth that we spin for ourselves is 'relative'. 'relative' perhaps in the sense that its true to you and unless you are the big guy, it doesnt matter.

yourdad

You said....On relative truth, maybe what he meant was that if there was an absolute truth determined by higher power, every other truth that we spin for ourselves is 'relative'

WHAT "HIGHER POWER" ?

It is not a smart thing to express your faith in an audience that Francis Yeoh attended. He could do that in a religious setting, not in an economic forum.

There is another view that says there is no such thing as a supernatural higher power that people call "GOD".

Read below to know more:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_God_Delusion

Or read the book itself:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/God-Delusion-Richard-Dawkins/dp/0593055489/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_a/202-8560125-0691043

This is for the relativists,

"If truth is relative, then no one is ever wrong—even when they are. As long as something is true to me, then I’m right even when I’m wrong. The drawback is that I could never learn anything either, because learning is moving from a false belief to a true one—that is, from an absolutely false belief to an absolutely true one. The truth is that absolutes are inescapable."

I did not said this. I extracted it from a very interesting article. Everyone should read it.