Screenshots

Folks

The amok-prone UMNO and UMNO Youth members are feeling very proud now that their antics are getting international coverage and the UMNO General Assembly is now on international news.

Keris-wielding mouth-frothing racist-bent Education Minister Kerishamuddin is bathing in international infamy.

Pak Lah should now promote him to a Tan Sri after his international-grabbing performance during the UMNO Assembly.

Guess all sensible governments shld declare this Keris guy "persona non grata" from visiting their countries...after all his feat was well covered and documented during the recent UMNO GA.
You never know when he would get amok in their country or at least get him to have a psychiatric evaluation first.

If I were him (KerisMan), I don't know where to hide my face. So shame shame lah!!!

Dear Jeff,
The thing that made me wonder is this: Hishamuddin's alma mater is St. John's Institution - a multi racial school with an equally multi racial teachers. Didn't he learn in school how to live in harmony and tolerate differences in a multi racial society? I'm ashamed having this kind of leader as my senior in school.

Having said that, I respect Gerakan's deputy youth leader Lim Si Pin. He went to the same school although only for a year (1987). His outlook contrasts deeply with Hishamuddin with regards to religious tolerance and mutual respect among the races. LKY's son embodies the true spirit of a Johannian and I'm proud to know him as a former classmate!

I have a feeling that there is a link between TDM's falling ill and being unable to attend the Assembly and UMNO's live telecast of the Assembly's proceesing.

The shouting of blood and waving of the keris is not new isn't it? But its good now that the true face of the Malays are now known worldwide. If they still have no shame, they are unsalvageable...

This is off topic but I heard the word "Malays" originated from the english word [ DELETED -- Malicious ]

"queequeg",

I also benefitted from the same SJI as Hisham [and Najib], who were my seniors. Certainly he does NOT represent the fine, well-rounded and balanced education the students of that time received from the teachers under the 'command' of Bro. Joseph Yeoh.

I think the majority of students in those days know what true religious tolerance and mutual respect among the races means.

Witness Raja Nazrin, who was from my batch of Johannians. Need I say more?

Crooked bridge, earsquat photos, khalwat raid on foreigners, playing marbles in a foreign spacecraft, termination with extreme prejudice of a young woman.

What manner of perjuangan symbolised by that keris could possibly have been served to salvage the local face when the global face is already soiled?

And they had the nerve to whitewash their rantings against the other communities by saying it has been done all the time in the past general assembly meetings which were not publicly broadcasted.

You mean saying repeating something callous should make it less callous? You mean the thoughts, intentions and logic behind those rantings are supposed to be ignored? That the words came out of the mouth independent of the brain? That the rakyat, both of umno and non-umno memberships, are supposed to know when to ignore, accept, erase, reject, support speeches of those who've been elected?

These the elected knew that they would be seen and heard on tv; they knew that what they said would reverberate around the world after all the scandalous events at the international level. They knew the effects it would have not only on the other communities but also on foreign perception of this country.

Yet they went ahead.

The twenty-six billion ringgit (minus) man said that despite the NEP, national growth was double-digit; by that logic, they will also say that despite this GA fiasco, FDI will continue to come in. We've gone below indonesia, man; the honorable minister should give the names of those new serious companies which had come in since Anwar's time.

So we next have damage control - three are ticked off. A question is asked. Would their being 'ticked off' mean that the police which have received reports made against them write against those reports 'no further action'? Were they trying to preempt police investigation? If yes, why yes? If no, why not? If yes and no, can the rakyat make a note of the decision so that if other communities are hauled up for the same, they can cite precedence and throw the complaints out the window?

Secondly did the trio apologize to the other communities for making such inflammatory remarks, certainly remarks more inflammatory than what M2's son had innocuously said, for which he had to apologise? If yes, why yes? If no, why not?

Lastly, to quote a press:

"Asked whether this would discourage delegates from speaking up in future, Abdullah said: “Umno (members) are not that afraid. If they have to debate, then debate. It’s others who fear when they hear Umno speak.”

(http://tinyurl.com/ybnekj)

That last sentence - was it said by the president of Umno per se, or by the Prime Minister of the country in a post representing all the communities? As was suggested by the same in his closing speech at that GA.

The inconsistencies are all due to insensitivities, denials, fabrications, twists, turns and juvenile jealousies.

With so much shenanigan going around, how can the brain, heart and mouth be harmoniously engaged? Them coming from the socalled elected leaders presiding over a multi-communal country, how then can these communities not be confused, disunited, demotivated, and downright furious?

It's not about the keris. It's really about their psychological make-up inside, as well as their worldview outside.

They have too much of the former and not enough of the latter.

and we have ang mou (mat sallehs ) coming here to learn abt racial harmony and we have hypocrites telling them grandfather stories on how we can maintain a peaceful country.

clickster

That is an offensive and distasteful posting you made.

If etymology is something outside your intelligence, don't make offensive speculative remarks that the word malay comes from [ DELETED ]

Such posting should have been deleted from the blog and banned.

Folks

This was published internationally:(http://www.chinapost.com.tw/i_latestdetail.asp?id=42812)

"...Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi, speaking after chairing a meeting of UMNO leaders Friday, said that three delegates identified as having made speeches deemed "extreme" were given a ticking off, the Bernama news agency reported late Friday.

"They were strongly advised and told to be careful when speaking as they could be contravening the law," Abdullah was quoted as saying. "The three have agreed to abide by the directive."

JUST A TICK OFF BY THE PRIME MINISTER OF MALAYSIA??? FOR INCITING HATRED, WITH WORDS LIKE BLOODLETTING OF NONMALAYS AND TELEVISED NATIONALLY AND REPORTED IN NATIONAL NEWSPAPERS???

Is the Pak Lah serious in trying to be a Prime Minister for ALL MALAYSIANS or is he a Prime Minister for UMNO members or is he running this country as President of UMNO?

Put the PM's response to the racial hatred speeches in context:

Imagine the ruckus by UMNO Youth and UMNO, followed by comments from Bukit Aman, the UMNO Ministers IF SUCH SPEECHES WERE MADE DURING THE MCA GENERAL ASSEMBLY OR BY DAP GENERAL ASSEMBLY, AND TELEVISED NATIONALLY ?????

Would the Prime Minister of Malaysia would just tick off the MCA members?

You make your own conclusion.

One begins to think that Pak Lah is playing UMNO Politics as Prime Minister and continues to allow the fiction of Ketuanan Melayu to be ingrained in Malaysian society.

Where is the rule of law and the enforcement of ISA, irrespective of race, religion and sex???

Clckster,

Your hypothesis is intriguing but it remains a coincidence that there is a pun between Malay and 'malaise'.

There is far more compelling evidence of linguistic roots of the Malay language owing much to other languages , including the indigenous Austronesian and Polynesian branches.

It appears that the higher civilization concepts and words originate from Sanskrit .

The world Malay comes from Malaya or mountain, which is Sanskrit, Malay is also hill in Tamil, Melayu is native of hill.

Malay royalty was essentially half Indian, in fact the word sejarah hence Sejarah Melayu are both Sanskrit. Check Sejarah Melayu scholar Dr. Sabri Zain below :

http://www.sabrizain.demon.co.uk/malaya/malays4.htm

http://www.sabrizain.demon.co.uk/malaya/hindu2.htm

Also borne out Dr. Leonard Y. Andaya in the Journal of Southeast Asian Studies (2001), 32: 315-330 Cambridge University Press.

Andaya traces the origin of Melayu to Jambi, in South East Sumatra, just like Sabri Zain and the ritual of the vedic-hindu yantra for initiating it s kings and princes. The original Malay Nusantara culture and not race was vedic-indic. Hence ‘Indo’ in Indonesia.

Other Sanskrit words in he Malay language are : bumiputra, negara, merdeka, bangsa, budaya, budi, bahasa, perdana, mentri, waja, iswara, waja, satria, agama, puasa, shyurga, neraka, wisma, putra, putri, raja, permaisuri, pustaka, singapura, Sumatra, Bali, Java, Brunei ( varuna), kalinga, laksamana, kedah, surya, cahaya, suara, bumi,sutera, suci, sempurna, angkasa, mahameru, upachara, manusia, suami, isteri, bujang, nusantara,tiara, mutiara, rasa, rahasia, rukunegara, purnimah, kuasa, tenaga, jaya, sri, baki, bhakti, derma, asrama, and many more. All of these words are Sanskrit and indeed there are many more that pervade the Malay language.

I don’t mean to sound ethnocentric nor tangential, but it is worthwhile to know some of the common antecedents of the Malay culture , since so much brouhaha has been generated over the keris and what is essentially Malay.

Let’s trace the origins of language and culture or, budi bahasa budi kita. If anything it will humble us all and yet embolden us to appreciate how rich Malaysia really is in its fusion of diversity and history, its uniqueness stemming out of the whole is more than sum of the parts. So resplendent , yet so untold.

Of coure Malay has loan words from Arabic, Chinese and Portuguese as well. But Sanskrit predominates. The protean and higher Malay cultural civilizational aspects have been coined in Sanskrit . Even the acronym atma is vedic Sanskrit for soul or Self. Just as budi is for ‘ refined mind’.

But to deny the early prototypical influence is the mainstay of our weakness, that stunts and arrogates to the point of active indifference of the celebration of unity in diversity and our rich multicultural roots. Every body outside Malaysia, knows this especially our neighbors, in Indonesia, Singapore and Thailand.

Suvarnabhumi is the new airport of Thailand , and it ironically is the ancient vedic name of Malaya . Thailand has now stolen the thunder form under Malaysia’s feet. Singapore hosted a celebration of Suvarnabhumi a few years ago as the underlying unifying platform of ASEAN cultures.

The much maligned keris originates from 'kerit' in Sanskrit which means ‘to cut’, its predecessor was the Indian leaf bade , and the centre of keris culture was Yogjarkarta, the hindu vedic center of which means unified centre of pleasant surprise. Its vernacular meaning is city of gods. The keris was believed to be originally crated by Brahmin priests. The famous Indonesian hindu temple of Prambanan, is near here.

Also check out;

http://countrystudies.us/indonesia/4.htm

But remember, race, culture and nationality are aligned but not biologically. To claim a biological basis as 'bloodhound' implies fascist leanings or least the beginning sof it.

There is no race in the world today that is 100 pure.

What is more important and urgent is the concept of cultural evolution and the building of nationhood, identify and resilience in the 21st century of globalization and flatness.

Sorry meant identity and resilience in the 21st century instead of 'identify' above (typoed).

Groo,

I clearly doubt there are: "ang mou (mat sallehs ) coming here to learn abt racial harmony" unless they are coming from countries in the Mid-East. As for Western Countries they already have "true" racial harmony by Malaysian Standards, in other wrods, most, just about almost all Western Countries have far far more ethnicities and different cultures living together peacfully more so than Malaysia. Sorry, I do not mean to direct it towards you, however it always ammuses me when someone talks about how Malaysia is "so" multi-racial" as if (and I am not saying you said this) we havbe more races here then most countries when in fact we are actually closer to the smallest amount of races a country has when compared to the West. Most Western countries have so many more races from all over the world: Chinese, Malay, Indians, Japanese, Koreans, Russians, Kazaks, Thai, Brazilian, French, Egyptian, Caussacks, etc etc. All of these races and cultures can be found living in most Western Countries. Thus I think we have a lot to learn from them instead. Oh and yes I do agree with your post---sorry Jeff did not mean to get off topic

GOsh...show more Keris and you will get this kind of publicity.

We have to tell Hishamuddin and his deputy, this kind of stunt no longer work anymore. He better pray hard the gun dont back fire... he might just hurt himself!

anyway... let the drama unfold...

Hope Badawi takes stringent action against the tough talking delegates as their actions will surely impact on the future of foreign investments in Malaysia. The RM50 million heist in Penang also will not speak too well for future foreign investors.

This NEWSWEEK article has cast a poor image of our country to foreigners.With a readership in the tens of millions,people from every corner of the world,would now have been exposed to the MYTH of a tolerant and multicultural society.

As I always say, the average rakyat be they Malays,Chinese,Indians,Ibans or Kadazans, are decent people who work hard to fend for themselves and their families.

It is the UMNOputra politicians who for the past 50 years have practised the cult of discrimination and racism.They have hijacked the noble aspirations of the founding fathers and replaced it with a racially biased doctrine, the NEP and its antecedent Malay Agenda.With the increasing popularity of PAS, this policy has been complemented by the Islamic Agenda.This process has unfortunately been abetted by the appeasement of the MIC and MCA.There has been a gradual weakening of the position of the non UMNO component parties in BN over the ensuing decades.And this has definitely reached a nadir with the Badawi administration.

So we now have a combined Malay and Islamic agenda.In the process, the non Malays and non Muslims have become alienated from the mainstream of society.Never in my 50 years have I seen this degree of alienation and pessimism among the Chinese and Indians, as over the past few months.

Many are contemplating migration but only a minority with skills and wealth will be able to do so.The vast majority of non Malays will remain as they do not have the resources to emigrate.The majority of these will be from the lower social income group with non marketable skills and inability financially to send their children overseas for education.

So we will have a gradual demographic shift where the proportion of the more needy and poorer non Malays will gradually increase. This will be compounded by the nearly 2.5 million or more Indonesians from the lowest strata of society.And not forgetting the unemployable Malay graduates.Here we have a volatile cocktail of people of various races , most of them poor and unskilled, scrambling for the breadcrumbs.

In an ever expanding economy , this is not a problem.But with the rapidly falling FDIs and competitiveness of our economy,the repurcussions are going to be serious in the future.The NEWSWEEK article will further discourage foreigners from contemplating any long term investment in the country.

The poor and less skilled Malaysians will have to fight for an ever shrinking cake.

The consequences would include;

1. Fall in disposable income as is being experienced now.Graduate salaries have generally stagnated over the past two decades.

2. Greater disparity between the rich and poor.

3. Escalating crime.

4. Escalating vices like prostituition and drugs.

5. Increasing tensions between the poorer segments of society.

6.As some have sarcastically remarked, we might even be exporting maids and construction workers in the next two to three decades, like Indonesia and the Phillippines .

7. Greater Islamisation as the poorer segments of Malays find solace in religion,when life becomes difficult. This may be exploited by radical imans who will try to push their Islamic agenda into the mainstream as is happening now ( elaborated in the above Newsweek article). In the current sea of Islamaphobia in the non Muslim world, Malaysia may be further marginalised from the rest of the world.

The Newsweek article is one of many articles appearing in the foreign press which are seriously casting a doubt on the future of our country.

Many Malaysians and even foreigners are genuinely concerned about our country's future. But to our politicians, ' semua nya Okay in BOLEHLAND"

While our country is slowly but surely regressing, the politicians are playing fiddle.

As the days pass by, we are beginning to, more and more, resemble Indonesia. No wonder the NEWSWEEK article bundled the two countries together.

Who knows. The aspirations of former President Sukarno , ( during Konfrontasi)might be fulfilled sometime in the next 50 years or so.

As written in The Star today...

" To live by the spirit of the keris is to fight exploitation, injustice and disorder, which are all detrimental to human progress and is just not the Malaysian way."

If that is the meaning to live by the spirit of the keris, then Hishamuddin should give the keris to someone more worthy, and UMNO needs to change its flag.

I do apologize for my earlier comments. I was just seeking clarification. I have no intention of insulting anyone except the keris wielding monkeys.

Folks

Here is another advice to Malaysian voters. This is another voice of the "New Malays" that we are hoping for.

Posted on Malaysiakini

http://www.malaysiakini.com/letters/60340
----

Letter writers, do more than just write

by

Ahmad Akmal
Nov 30, 06 4:38pm

The letters to the editor that have been published by malaysiakini in recent days have drawn my eyes to the fact that there are many more like-minded Malaysians out there who share my distaste at the way things are presently in our country. Written by Malay, Chinese, Indians and writers from other descents, the message is similar - something is amiss.

The Malays writers go on about how the NEP is going to destroy their race, but don’t want to speak up for fear of being labeled a traitor. The Chinese writers ramble about how bad a deal they are getting, having to still subsidise their 'country mates' after nearly 50 years of independence. One points to how even a nation that was on the brink of nuclear destruction became a world power in less than half that time, exporting all those cars. The Indian writers detail how it has been even worse for them, third-class citizens, as one points out.

The point I'm trying to get at is that, you, as part of the voting public, should do more than just vent your frustrations in writing. You have something no one can take away from you - the right to choose who your leaders are. The right to vote.

If the present situation persists, you have no one to blame but yourselves. You’re to blame for the downward spiral that your race is facing as a result of politicians sucking the country dry under the guise of the NEP. You’re to blame for being unfairly treated for nearly 50 years. You’re to blame in that you remain third-class citizens.

The time for change is now. And for those who claim that there is no other party to vote for except one religious-based party (which threatens to bring us back to the Stone Age) and one whose leading figure was once part of the same rotten bunch of leaders once, let me remind you that there is an alternative.

If you, like me, share the holistic view that meritocracy should prevail, that freedom of speech should be a basic principle, that the power to imprison a person indefinitely without a trial should be a thing of the past, that we and our country deserve better than to be sucked dry by greedy politicians, that the freedom to choose a religion or to choose not to have one should be the right of every individual, that there should be a separation of church (or in this case, mosque) and the state, then exercise your right and cast your vote.

If there is no worthy party to vote for, then vote for the independent candidate. There is no way to be sure that he or she would do a better job, but come on, it surely can’t get any worse than this. The recent Umno general assembly showed a glimpse of the future crop of leaders, such as Hishammuddin Hussien Onn and Khairy Jamaluddin, beating their chests. I can conclude only one thing - we are doomed if this lot comes to power.

I appeal for more people to run as independent candidates in the next general election. Run on the principles of equality and meritocracy, and my vote is with you. It’s time to save our country from the brink of self-destruction. You, voters, do have a say, and you do have a choice. Part of the government’s lie has been to make you believe that you don’t.

Press for greater scrutiny of the Elections Commission in the next general election and make your choice. To not do so would be a crime against future generations.

Folks

You gotta read this.

I think if our fellow Malay brothers and sisters in the Malay heartland can only read what is written below by Ahmad Akmal, then we have hopes for the bright future for our country. And our future generations will able to share the bright Malaysian sun peacefully together

As they say, we as decent Malaysians, who do love Malaysia more than we love ourselves as Malays, Chinese or Indians or other bumiputeras, can reclaim back the country from the clutches of those amok-prone, mouth-frothing racist bent politicians who have been governing this country with absolute arrogance and insensitively over the last 40 years.

Somebody should find time and resources to translate this into Bahasa or Jawi and have them distributed to all our kampung folks all over the country.. in leaflets and booklets.

-----

http://www.malaysiakini.com/letters/59313

NEP will only lead to self-destruction

by

Ahmad Akmal
Nov 9, 06 5:49pm

I refer to the letter Economist’s basis of calculation erroneous. Well, it seems like that cat is out of the bag. Numbers, as they say, do not lie. Having lived a major part of my life trading commodities here in Chicago, that is a saying that holds true in my industry.

Bumiputera equity ownership numbers have been revealed for what they really are. A staggering 45% says the report by Asli which seems rather well-referenced. Mission accomplished - equalisation of equity ownership achieved. But is it really? Are the numbers right, or are my ears deceived by relatives back home, who still whine constantly at how bad they are faring as bumiputeras in Kuala Kangsar?

I looked up the numbers provided by Asli, and they are, well, accurate. And looking at the massive wealth accumulated by the bumiputera (primarily Umno) politicians and their families, it is quite clear where that 45% is. I frown with disgust, but can't help feeling a sense of vindication that I was right 17 years ago.

Back then, when I had just finished my term at Yale and was still said by many of my own to be raw in my thoughts, I had predicted that it was going to be this way, corrupt politicians sucking the country's wealth, politicians playing the racial card to stay in power, and affirmative action policies resulting in the ultimate destruction of the country (and, more importantly to me, the Malays). The latter part of the predictions has not happened yet, but it appears we are locked solidly on autopilot, well on the way to it.

I moved here to Chicago, after spending my first two years out of varsity as a trader in stock options in New York. My parents were from modest origins in the town of Kuala Kangsar and I had the opportunity to ply my time abroad thanks to a government scholarship. I'm not proud of the fact, as the scholarship is a given by virtue that I am a Malay. But I probably would have earned the scholarship on merit anyhow as I had aced my secondary school exams.

Policies like the affirmative action for the bumiputeras is only going explode in a matter of time. And the longer the duration, the more painful the fall. That is the fate that is to befall my kind. The non-bumiputera (mainly the Chinese and Indians) population will slowly find greener pastures abroad (that is already happening). The policy then falls flat as you have much less contributors but many more recipients. And the Malays will be left with not much but a very beggar type mentality. Since there are no more non-Malays to fight against, it becomes Johorian versus Kelantanese (a-la Shia versus Sunni in Iraq).

So right now, while I'm contemplating retiring at a relatively young age of 41, I fear the worst for my people. I objected against this affirmative action policy when I was a student, and I object to it now.

We must rid ourselves of this burden, and embrace our non-Malay countrymen of superior work ethic, not chase them away. We must. And in answering the question posed by Confused White Guy's Timeless masterpiece of the 'sensitive issue', the only way we can stop this self-destruction is for us, as the 'beneficiaries' of this affirmative action policy, to speak out against it and get it scrapped along once and for all.

Along the years, I have met up with more than a handful of those who share my views about the future of the race, both here in the US and back home. Well, it is time for us to salvage this situation. You can do that by voting the heavily-corrupted Umno out, by voting for an independent candidate in the next general elections.

We have to act now for even foreigners are starting to see the picture as clearly as I do. Say no to the bumiputera policies. Say no to self-destruction. Say no to corrupt politicians who only seek to enrich themselves (I understand this has now sunk to the level of the PM's son sucking the country's coffers dry in full public view). Say no to these corrupt politicians who stay in power by playing the racial card. Say no to the fanatics who play the religious card.

Staying here in the US for as long as I have, I appreciate the positive things of this country which are really quite plentiful (despite the downs, like the current maniac in office). In that time, I have come to abide by good principles which really should be a given. I believe in freedom of speech, I believe in meritocracy, I believe that government should be accountable and transparent, and I believe in a secular state.

Too bad the current political climate in Malaysia can’t foster a party that voices the above in its manifesto, as they would probably be in the joint. So it is time to act and you and I can play a part right now by voting for the independents, and voicing the need to remove the bumiputera policy, which is a surefire way to self-destruction.

Folks

I do have a problem with Ahad Akmal's suggestion to vote for Independents, although I understand his concern that alternatives to UMNO are no better.

Voting for Independents will still retain the status-quo ie UMNO will still dominate the Govt with the castrated MCA and MIC to form the crowd.

Independents generally don't feature well in Malaysian politics and some Independents are mainstream parties' PROXIES or Hantus. They change side after getting voted in. And if not, they are easily bought with money politics.

For change to occur, there should be a tidal transfer of votes AWAY from UMNO, and away from MCA and MIC to at least ONE Malay-dominant party.

The ideal scenario is to have a Rainbow Coalition of PAS-Keadilan-DAP plus minor parties. Compromise so that sufficient seats go to PAS from areas with majority of Malay voters.

Where PAS is weak, put up Keadilan candidates. DAP stay out.

Gerakan strongholds are best competed by Keadilan

The difficult compromise to overcome will be seats between Keadilan and DAP to sway MCA votes. Malays hesitate to vote DAP.

These parties should not stand against each other.

They need a strong team of campaign strategies from the 3 parties. Anwar can be an advisor to the campaign team.

Frank&Honest,

Parti Negara and Parti Keadilan share 2 things in common.

Both allowed members of all races, and both cannot succeed. Why? Because everyone else is playing the racial card during elections.

Keadilan couldn't.

Money is another issue. PAS, Keadilan and DAP are strapped for cash.

On the reasoning of why we shouldn't vote for independent candidates...I dunno, you seem to think that the independents will all side for the government, but the only independent MP seems rather neutral.

Hi folks,
I've been reading all your comments and I agree with Ahmad Akmal's letter. Although I don't agree about voting for Independent candidates because, as some has pointed out, they can swing from either side of of the fence.

As F&H pointed out, the main idea is for a change of tide in voting, which means a massive vote swing AWAY from BN. I believe if we all start telling others about it from now, things might change come next election.

All I can hope is AAB continue to do his tai-chi (ie. slow response & elligantly silent) style of leadership. Before long, BN may as well voted out because of his inept leadership style!

ordinaryperson

The way I see it, given the current mood inthe country on UMNO and UMNO's racial antics and exposed abuse of NEP over the years at the expense of deserving poorer Malays,especially our kampung folks, the formation of the next Govt after the next election is for PAS's asking.

If PAS does not know how to capitalise this mood for time for change, PAS should not be in politics and those campaign strategists in PAS should be sacked. If it cannot reinvent itself to win non Malay votes without losing its core constituents, then PAS will forever remain in the margins of Federal politics.

If it cannot even engage fruitfully with other opposition parties to take leadeship and form a viable coalition for change of Govt at the election, then it will forever remain a party with limited scope of influence in the nation's political landscape.

PAS should learn a thing or two on how the Democrat Party who won the 2 Houses in US from the ruling Republican Party after 12 years.It capitalises on the stupidity of the White House on Iraq war and the Republican Party's scandals.

F&H, I don't want to be judgemental, but do you really think PAS will look at the US & learn about their democratic processes?

It may be the fault of mainstream newspapers, but reading about PAS trying to woo voters via concerts with artists from other states makes me wonder. They can't be serious, are they? I'm really wondering what's going through those heads of PAS leadership.

They've lost Terengganu, and only retain Kelantan by 1 seat in the last GA. And yet, they refuse to compromise with other Opposition parties to work together. What are they thinking? Don't you think they should really re-look at their policies, again?

Also, they seems awfully quite about UMNO's recent GA bash. Don't they have any comment about UMNO at all?

ordinaryperson,

PAS has lost the support of a lot of people after the changes the implemented in Terengganu. The loss of Terengganu and the close win of Kelantan have made them weary.

Adding to that, they see no dispute against Pak Lah as PM.

ordinaryperson

you asked...And yet, they refuse to compromise with other Opposition parties to work together. What are they thinking? Don't you think they should really re-look at their policies, again? Also, they seems awfully quite about UMNO's recent GA bash. Don't they have any comment about UMNO at all?

I cannot speak for PAS what they are thinking. I am not a member, even remotely.

They are politicians and they know what they are doing better than us non-politicians.

They have survived politically since independence etc against the UMNO onslaught of all kinds, do say something about their politican acumen. It is not easy to stay politically afloat to have the ruling party, almost control of the mainstream media,the instruments of power and powers of detention, taxpayers funds siphoned for political purposes.

All I know that PAS of late are bringing in intellectuals, and fairly open minded individuals.

In politics, what you see is not necessarily what it is. No they are not quiet on the UMNO General Assembly. Anyway NST (read UMNO) and STAR (read MCA) will not publish any criticism coming from PAS
on UMNO.

I have read an article from one of PAS key officials condemning the UMNO General Assembly's racial antics.And it is not in NST or Star.

Frank&Honest

I have read an article from one of PAS key officials condemning the UMNO General Assembly's racial antics.And it is not in NST or Star.

It would be wise to share a link to that info...

http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/12/4/nation/16216248&sec=nation

Time to throw the 3 party opposition theory out the window...

aput83

Sad, isn' it?

That is why DAP is forever an opposition party or what we called "rabble-rouser" party... more noise than getting things done.

DAP is as narrow-visioned as you can get. Even their most respected member could be bought for a Tan Sri.

DAP will remain basically a Chinese-based rabble-rousing party, making noises of little consequence to the governance ofthe country or to the political landscape.

Lim Kit Siang is still locked to the old political paradigm DAP operates in the 60s or 70s.

aput83

To add..

DAP's constituents are traditionally the Chinese/Mandarin speaking voters formerly in New Villages.

As I said before, many of them don't see further than their noses, and stucked with their parochial communal interests rather than the long term interests of the general Chinese community and the country especially.

For the Chinese voters, while MCA is being castrated, we have DAP with claustrophic view of themselves and others. DAP's survival, like UMNO, is still fighting communal interests disguised in other forms. Worse than MCA which is outright race-based.

For the Chinese voters, they will be the victims of the very race-based politics of the parties, not of their own choosing, but of their political leaders.

F&H, thanks for the info.
Anyway, at the end of the day, all I can say is put our voting rights to good use, don't you think? Tell our friends, families, enemies etc. that if we value for our future generations & their future, we should really vote for change. The time of action is now. We may not see change anytime soon, but journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step.

Oh, F&H, do you think that it's because DAP don't have the funds to do much meaningfully? I'm just asking this out of curiosity.

I agree mostly with your points right there, dear Frank&Honest, but then, if we want to have a good Opposition, the Opposition must be willing to safeguard the Bumiputera priveleges.

PAS insists on an Islamic country, practicing Sharia Law, which scares the heck out of everyone.

DAP wants to abolish the Bumiputera status, and remove the quotas on University.

Keadilan, says nothing clear about the Bumiputera status whatsoever.

Without guarantee that Bumiputera priveleges will be maintained, the Opposition will not get the support of the Malay majority.

Reading these post and comments made me realise one thing, and as echoed in one of the comments, we (malays, chinese, Indians, etc) share one thing in common, our love for the country,Malaysia, is greater then the love of our origin.
The problems lies here, what is our alternative? DAP? PAS? KEADILAN? What has their policies brought us thus far? What have they been harping on within their parties? Why are they crying wolf more often than not rather then fighting the fight?
The point is, we do not have a good and decent leader in the opposition. Those that are there have started their fight on the wrong foot. One's fight thought laudable is questionable from his defection! Another is making good point, but have shown through his experience that he has made worng decisions!
Until, and unless we have a good, leading voice, and having points that are worth facing up to, we don't stand a chance! If Lee Lam Thye was an opposition leader now, I am sure he will get some people thinking...why do you think he retired? go figure . .

alliedmartster,

Personally, I'd vote for a social democrat, but I've yet to find one.

That was some writing by attila the hun (another mongolian descent).
The sanskrit culture of India not only inlfuenced the malays in the archipelago, but also the Chams (Cambodia/vietnam), The thais, the Burmese. Hence, although presently, these people are of differing religion, the cultural similarity includes building houses on stilts, posturing low when passing in front of somebody who is seated, using spices in food, not pointing the feet at another person. It was as if the whole of south east asia was at one time under one regime. Hence the Hindu temple of prambanan could have been built about same time as that of angkor wat and Bujang valley in Kedah.

In another twist to the tale, these countries are now in similar fate as they are all under the influence of traders of chinese descent who control the economy.

I will be difficult for non racist to work with hishamuddin. He lost his credibility and i think best for Pak lah to sack him. Otherwise, this government will lose its credibility as well.

aput83

Politics is all about packaging. It is how to package your messages to the voters.

DAP in this case is amateurish... they are only good at rabble-rousing communal issues knowing that that they can create clap-trap responses from their constituents but with little benefit and consequences. That is why even UMNO and MCA think that DAP's views, however, substantive, are irrelevant inthe governance of this country. They even get insulted in Parliament, that much respect they get from the ruling parties.

Malaysians, Malays, Chinese and Indians are more mature than many of us think. They have been hoodwinked too long, through the politics of fear, that all it needs is enlightened politcal leadership (which is in very short supply in Malaysia). That is why, UMNO has degenerated from an enlightened party in the early years of formation of the country in mid 50s, fighting for independence, working closely with other races, to now becoming a paranoid, amok-prone party, with a hopelessly weak leadership at the present time.

Great, PAS has outdone themselves again...

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/12/5/nation/16222713&sec=nation

I will dread to think of what else they would do once they are in power. I don't want to be judgemental but it seems to me PAS, more often than not, are obsess with things that are superficial. Form over substance. BN really have to thank PAS for saving BN's effort to draw voters, while Opposition have them to thank for undoing the Opposition's effort.

aput83,
Exactly, what Bumiputra privilege are you talking about here? It is this so called Bumiputra privileges UMNO had the chance to twist it into some tools to enrich themselves & their cronies. The way I see it, as long as there is a "us-vs-them" situation, UMNO will continue to exploit that division to their own advantage. This is how the "divide-and-rule" game being played, right?

Poverty cut across racial boundary but why do you keep yourself limited by this boundaries?

I didn't know the Geneva Convention accord any special privileges to any particular race in terms of human rights. Why Malaysia has to make an exception?

All I want to see is equality, regardless of race or religion. Is that too much to ask? Or am I just being selfish?

ordinaryperson

You are quoting news from Star, an MCA-owned newspaper about LOCAL POLITICS, and also on news on opposition parties.

Don't get suckered by the political propaganda of MCA through Star...

They twist and slant news on local politics to suit MCA or BN. Do you think they would publish news that is neutral to other political parties.

Try reading back all the news in Star on local politics over the years.

Each time you read editorials and so-called news on LOCAL POLITICS in Star and NST, take with a ton of salt with your breakfast.

Yes, Read Star if you want to know what is MCA's agenda; read NST to read UMNO's agenda.

For PAS, go read Harakah Daily, http://www.harakahdaily.net/v061/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=1&Itemid=28

And I hope your Bahasa is good enough.

On aput83's point: I believe he said that to win the votes in the Malay heartland, you got to say something about bumiputera privileges. And why not? There are still deserving bumiputeras, not only Malays but those in Sabah and Sarawak, who need help. But this does not exclude providing assistance to deserving non-bumiputeras.

F&H,
while you say you are not a PAS member, it's become pretty clear where your sympathies lie. You rip viciously into a party like DAP but reserve kid gloves for PAS.

F&H, I admit that I do fall prey to the mainstream media's propaganda via the Star. However, you have to admit that despite the lies, most people do read the mainstream newspapers. Hence, it does raise non-Malay's concern whenever PAS does something, which seems to invade into the rights of minority. Without going into details about these issues, nonetheless, news such as these do bothers non-Malay & non-Muslims alike.

On Bumiputera's privileges, I do agree that deserving Bumiputeras need to be help. However, there are also non-bumis who need to be helped. The idea of "privilege" itself already create a division among Malaysians. How can there be equality, yet there is this "special" privilege accord to one segment of society alone, based on their origins i.e. race. According special privileges to one particular segment of society based on race is exactly what UMNOputra's is twisting to their own gains. It's the principal of according "privileges" based on race that I'm having problem with, and that's exactly what UMNO/BN has be living by in order to maintain power.

banjaran

Give me a viable alternative to UMNO run this country after the next general election.

DAP ?? Keadilan ?

I am looking at the next best outcome.

I got no worries if a political wants to enhance its religion as long as it does not encroach to the rights of others. IF PAS prevents Kelantan Chinese from eating pork, that is an issue. If PAS says that non Muslims should not sell food to Muslims during fasting month, I have no problem with that. If PAS says don't evangelise Christianity to Muslims, I have no problem with that. Non Malays had not complained that Kelantan had weekend holidays on Fridays all these years.

The trouble with West Coast Malaysians is that they are being brainwashed into stupidity and into stupor by UMNO's NST and MCA;s Star on LOCAL POLITICS. You and the rest are sublimely mentally cleaned to think along UMNO and MCA lines every morning on the news agenda set by NST and Star.

You even accept political nonsense reported by NST and Star on the local political scene as news.

As for DAP, I feel more sorry for them. They will be forever a DAP on the fringe with a small collection of constituents in parts of townships, to help rabble-rouse issues in Parliament and in the media. Their complaints about Govt abuse are valid but their voices are of little consequence in real terms. Good for coffee shop chats and a few claps of praise here and there.

ordinaryperson

You said..., you have to admit that despite the lies, most people do read the mainstream newspapers

The mainstream newspapers you call them are UMNO and MCA mouthpieces and owned by these parties runnign the govt. Like in Communist China, the Communist Party runs the China Daily.

Yes, go and read about the sports, foreign news, stock exchange, share markets, human interest stories of burglaries and accidents in the Klang Valley etc. But tear out the pages on local politics... then you can call NST and Star as mainstream newspapers to enlighten your day each morning.

By the way, UMNO and MCA do make sure YOU read all the GOOD things about them and all the BAD NEWS about other political parties.

Even the columnists and editors are paid mouthpieces of UMNO and MCA. The NST and Star journalists have to worry about bringing food for their families, so they have to sell their professional journalistic ethics to the devil and they prostitute their professional integrity to their UMNO and MCA masters who own these newspapers.

NST and MCA reporters when interviewing Ministers, don't behave like reporters you see in other countries. They are more like stenographers and note takers, and sometimes you get the feeling the questions they ask Ministers are set-questions given by the Ministry bureaucrats so that the Ministers look good in their replies.

Moral of the story: Don't get hoodwink by NST and MCA on their reporting of local politics. That is, jump off from their bandwagon.

F&H, personally, I do not have issue voting for the Oppossition, be it PAS or DAP or Keadilan regardless of what the mainstream write about them. I read news on malaysiakini, and I think you do too. ;)

But you have to admit that not everybody reads alternative news. Heck, not everybody have access to a computer or the internet anyhow. Most people still reads the good old newspapers, and most of these, if not all are controlled by BN. Nonetheless, the chinese newspapers tend to be more liberal as they do highlight issues that affects the chinese. Well, track records shows that the chinese newspapers had more "encounter" with the BN government than other newspapers simply because most chinese believed in non-monopolisations of news publishers. Remember the take over of Nanyang by MCA? Most Chinese was against the idea but MCA went ahead anyhow. And now, Nanyang had to be sold off because of boycott from the chinese community.

That besides, you have to admit that whatever PAS do, non-Muslims watch closely. Things that they do, in some ways, spooks non-Muslims in one way or another, regardless where they get the source of the news from.

Too bad PAS do not publish communal language mouthpieces. Even if they do, I wonder if they (the non-Muslims) will read it.

ordinaryperson

NonMalays and nonMuslims need to think of the box and get out of the stereotyping.

There is an unfair stereotyping of Islam and of Muslims by non Muslims especially by the Malaysian Chinese.

If you read the history of Islam or read about Islam itself, you will be surprised that it is more tolerant than Christianity. Muslim rulers have, historically, been the most tolerant relative to the invading Chrisitians. More than 90% Christian holy places are still intact in Palestine despite over 500 years of Muslim rule. YOu go to Turkey, the former seat of the Roman Empire, holy Chrstian sites are still there. The Muslims protected the Jews during the years of persecution. And when the Jews came to Palestine just before and after WWII (and eventually stole their land with the aid of Christian Govts ofa the West), they were not thrown out by the Palestinian Muslims.

So, I think your fear of Muslims and Islam is very misplaced. The current terrorism in the worldis all about land, resource control and domination by Western Govts especially by George Bush who said his God asked him to attack Iraq thereby killing 650,000 ,majority innocent women and children. The Western (Christian and Zionist controlled newspapers)media, playing to the fears of the Christian fundamentalist Right of the US, are like NST and Star, they have their own propaganda against the Musim counties.

If I were you, I would fear more of Racists from all religions, a good example is one you hear from the UMNO General Assembly.

Most nonMalays andnonMuslims need to have a radical attitude change, something the Kelantan Chinese have done quite well in the last 20 years.

Dear Frank & honest.
there are two types you should be weary of. aethist and people who profess a religion.These are the people who will commit atrocities without any remorse.e.g stalin, Mao and crusades. islamic world are in a slaughter mood if you were to read the news these days. The PAS you speak of will immediately change colours the moment they gain power.
You do not have to be in any religion to believe in God.

sydput

You said... The PAS you speak of will immediately change colours the moment they gain power.

That is hypothetical. You don't make decisions on presumptions without facts

Frank&Honest

I think sydput has a point. PAS was quite hypocritical in Terengganu, with the implementation of hudud and qisas, as well as a promise to be more progressive when joining the BA.

The recent news of how PAS in Kelantan is now giving out RM500 fines for not following their dress code is ludicrous.

F&H, history only shows trends but not necessary provide an accurate bearings to the future. Islam may be a tolerant religion but does that guarantees Muslims is equally tolerant. I don't know. Most non-Muslims would prefer to reserve their judgement on that. And PAS is fundementally a religious-political party, and that, puts a lot of unnecessary fear in non-Muslims.

In the battle to win the Malay heartland, both UMNO and PAS has been trying to outdo one another. I don't know about others but I certainly do not feel comfortable as both parties out "Islamised" each other eventhough I despise BN/UMNO.

Also 1999 election has proven that it will be difficult for non-Muslims to vote for PAS, unless they try to be more moderate. DAP has learned a hard lesson there. And with PAS latest stun on dress code for women, it only serves to reinforce non-Muslims fear.

Well. Argument and theory aside, I believe all of you agree that none of the opposition is capable of forming government alone.

We just need watchdog with some teeth. It doesn't matter who take the gomen, nobody (or party) is perfect.

Just let them have 50% 50% split for gomen and opposition. Both will kiss your feet and seek your consent.

We want them to fight among themselves for the good of malaysia, not the rakyat fight among themselves (racial card) for the good of politician (gomen/opposition alike)

ordinaryperson

What's wrong with having the women to dress decently?

You don't want your daughters to expose too much flesh than needed.

Or your wives and daughters showing too much cleavage in public.

ordinaryperson, sydput and aput83

So be prepared for more of the same from UMNO for the next 15 years.

And don't whinge and complain if you see more keris wielding, bloodthirsty and racist comments in years to come.

UMNO is smart. It had made the political landscape into a zero-sum situation ie choice voters have are virtually nil except UMNO. So all of you got screwed through and through politically.

megahyper,
Agrees with you, totally.

F&H: "There is an unfair stereotyping of Islam and of Muslims by non Muslims especially by the Malaysian Chinese....So, I think your fear of Muslims and Islam is very misplaced."

_________________

Well, as much as you want non-Muslims to understand PAS, you should also try to understand non-Muslims. The so called "stereotyping" is not confined to Malaysian non-Muslims but is a global phenomenon.

By the way, have you read about the latest tussle over a dead body?
http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/60555

F&H,
There is nothing wrong for women to dress decently. In fact, I'd prefer them to dress decently, personally. However, why can't we leave the decision on how to dress back to the ladies? Why? Do you think that they are so "brain-less" that they can't dress themselves decently without someone else making rules for them to do so? Come on. Give the ladies some credits. They are not 3 yr olds. Even if they are 3 yr olds, leave the job of self-dressing to their Moms, ok?

Shouldn't you be thankful that PAS didn't say ALL Muslim men have to dress like Arabs i.e. with full robs & turbans, or should you?

The point is, I'd like to be my own moral guardian. I don't need the state to erect rules & regulations to guide me morally. And I think many will agrees with me on this. If you like to guide other people's moral, just confine it within your own household, ok? Leave the parenting job back to the parents.

Also, don't lash out on everyone as if every person who disagrees with PAS policies voted for BN. My parents is in a constituency where the choice is either BN or PAS. And I told them to vote for PAS. So, safe your outraging energies for someone else, will ya?

Also, non-Muslims fear of Muslims & Islam is not completely unfounded. 9/11 is still very fresh on our minds, like it or not.

PAS should focused on it's job, which is to govern & run the state. Not going around telling people how to dress or behave.

They are elected to be a fair government for all, not parenting us all. If they can't tell the difference between parenting and governing, then they are in the wrong career. They should have been some educator or something.

banjaran

Yes, I read about the dead body.

Time they change the damn law in the country. Some idiots became moral policemen of the sharia law. As you know, UMNO had over ride the Federal Constitution and allowed those idiots to become moral policemen. I can also remember the case of some moronic ustaz asking Muslims not allowed to wish others happy Deepavali.

ordinaryperson: You want to be your own moral guardian? Try walking around in your underpants in govt offices and see whether you can truly be your own moral guardian. It is a question of degree.

If you watch CN etc, the women reporters in the Muslim countries eg Pakistan, Iran or in Saudi Arabia, they are asked to wear scarf or when they meeet their religious leaders.

I would agree if PAS has gone overboard if they ask non Muslims to compulsorily wear the tudung or headscarf. Then they are unelectable in Malaysia to run the country.

Try having your own moral guardians in some of these Muslim countries, even as a visitor?

ordinaryperson

By the way, I did not PAS is an ideal political party and I have said,they have a lot of reinventtion to do within themselves.

I also said I did not agree with every one of their policies.

But putting PAS against the damage UMNO has done to the country and to the fragile racial harmony, the increasing hatred UMNO creates among their members against the non Malays, especially the Chinese, I would overlook the lesser bad policies of PAS, and give them a chance.

If they behave worse than UMNO, they have 5 years to prove they are idiots. And they can be kicked out. You and I have tolerated UMNO, for how long? almost FIFTY YEARS.

The nonMalays cannot be anymore worse off or further oppressed in that FIVE years of PAS, would it?

And to worry about dress code? Against the racist hatred thrown at non Malays (especially the Chinese) at the Annual General Assembly and worst still, condoned by their President, who is the Prime Minister.

Hey, you know where I will put my luck on, under those choices above.

Worrying about dress code and burials ??? There should be bigger worries than these, unless Malaysians are too narrow-focused and small-minded on the future of the country.

F&H, I know what you are mean. In fact, I do agree with you that all who are dissatisfied with BN, should discard our differences and work together to vote BN out. As you say, if the Opposition is useless, they've only 5 yrs to run the show, at most.

However, it bugs me whenever we hear PAS do something silly to discredit themselves, right after everyone was about to support them. Does PAS aim to run this country or not? Why can't they, compromise and be all thing to ALL Malaysians, instead of just being the champion for Muslims only. Non-muslims doesn't have much to ask, just equality. No one likes to be discriminated against just because they are born with different skin colour or have different faith. I'd like to be treated with some dignity and equality as a fellow human being and a fellow Malaysian. This is the only country I know, and it's the only citizenship I have. So, is the desire to be fairly treated is being unfair?

I was born and bred here, and so is everyone who is born here. So, why the discrimination? Why some people is MORE equal than the other? To me, that is unfair.

F&H, being my own moral guardian, doesn't not mean being offensive or disrespectful to others at will. Being my own moral guardian means I, and I alone be responsible to my fellow human, country, and most of all, my God. Being a citizen of this country, means I abide by it's laws, which applies to all Malaysians. However, as far as morality is concerned, I'm solely responsible to my God. If you have a problem with that, that's NOT my problem.

..I happen to think the amount of skin anyone wants to expose should be their own decision, and should not cost more than a parking ticket or a speeding fine.