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OOOOOIIII! DId anyone remind these buggers that there are people like us who enjoy our food? GEEEEEZZZ does it mean in the near future, we will see Malaysians driving across to Singapore to buy HAM/BACON/TURKEY/EVEN CRABS?

Let's all live a Halal lifestyle and then we will all meet in heaven . . .

Man, I have to migrate...but no country wants me lah .. Oh I know, I can comment about racial tensions and all those inciting comments made by delegates at the recent UMNO convention and get hounded by the police, so I can then apply to migrate under the grounds of Persecution!! now thats a thought . . ..

....damn, I was just warming up the oven...

And I had such a good recipe to try out this Christmas. Guess I'll substitute it with roast lamb instead.

What if the product was labelled halal in Philippines? Will it be considered halal in Malaysia?

Have been celebrating Christmas all my life. The only difference between what you'd find in a Deepavali home and, not just mine, but those of other Malaysian Indian Christians, is the presence of the Christmas tree. The food spread would be about the same, murukku and all, except maybe for the Big Sister fruit cake soaking in brandy! But never a turkey!!! Well, not at least until I got married and my chinese wife decided a turkey would be fun! Otherwise, in our own home it was the local turkey, home slaughtered, for Easter...and not oven baked or roasted ...but Indian curry marinated and varuval fried and the bones and what ever else in a turkey curry!....Yummy!....But now that I am old and mummy not cooking anymore...can't look forward to any more such stuff and Devi's Corner never serves Turkey! Poor me!

Have been celebrating Christmas all my life. The only difference between what you'd find in a Deepavali home and, not just mine, but those of other Malaysian Indian Christians, is the presence of the Christmas tree. The food spread would be about the same, murukku and all, except maybe for the Big Sister fruit cake soaking in brandy! But never a turkey!!! Well, not at least until I got married and my chinese wife decided a turkey would be fun! Otherwise, in our own home it was the local turkey, home slaughtered, for Easter...and not oven baked or roasted ...but Indian curry marinated and varuval fried and the bones and what ever else in a turkey curry!....Yummy!....But now that I am old and mummy not cooking anymore...can't look forward to any more such stuff and Devi's Corner never serves Turkey! Poor me!

Jeff,

I think you are starting to stir fear within the non-malay, non-muslim rakyat.

Had you fully understood the JAKIM press statement? The statement merely advised the muslims to stay away from consuming the imported turkey brought into the country from November 19. Bear in mind that JAKIM is only addressing the muslims regarding the "halal"ness of the said meat.

JEFF OOI says: Hence I said Uncle Yap's fear shouldbe relieved perhaps a little.

You said: "This could be an about-turn from Jakim as market talks among meat importers have been rife recently that non-halal meat like turkey might be prevented from entering Malaysia."

JEFF OOI says: Hence I didn't fail to highlight the part in the Bernama's story that said the same thing.

The government (and I did not mean JAKIM per se), had never banned unhalal food into the country, hence the chinese community had been enjoying (Maling?) luncheon meat for decades. In fact, if the government is to ban the import of non-halal meat, it would first have to get rid of the Anchor and Carlsberg breweries in PJ! Not to mention the gambling den of Genting Highlands.

JEFF OOI says: I don't think you are speaking in a capacity that represent the government's policy, hence I won't glorify your personal view as an edict, and I hope you must be aware to keep your views as just that: your views.

As a muslim, it is my duty to remind you that the government has been very lenient about allowing non-halal stuff in this majority-Muslim country.

JEFF OOI says: Are you using your religious posturing to intimate the public?

You have no idea what paranoia the muslims get everytime they walk past the pork section of wet markets, the suspicion we have everytime we buy products off the shelf. However, our paranoia aside, in the spirit of co-existence, the government had allowed the non-muslims enjoy non-halal stuff (food, beverages and gambling).

JEFF OOI says: Please be reminded that you are targetting religiously-slanted sermon to the public,part of which prefers a liberal, secular value system that is constitutionally enshrined.

To alliedmartster, your sarcasm is very denting to the unity of the nation: "Let's all live a Halal lifestyle and then we will all meet in heaven . . .". Yes, it is your opinion, but it just show two things: 1) you are shallow in your ranting, 2) you are poking fun at the muslim faith.

To aput83: "What if the product was labelled halal in Philippines? Will it be considered halal in Malaysia?", the fact that if it is available in the local stores, it is really up to the muslim individual to assess. Muslims exist in different mazhabs (denominations) the world around, so different mazhabs may have different guidelines in preparation of the foodstuff. Jakim is the governing body for Muslim halal certification in the country, so it may have no say in quantifying the halalness of food being prepared outside Malaysia. For the average muslim (of which I am one!), we use our own judgement in assessing if we can trust the halal certification of any other country.

The issue of halal and haram may be laughing stock to the non-muslims, but why should we start ill-feelings by even suggesting that their faith is laughing stock? It means nothing to you but it also hurt you not, to not be sarcastic about it.

Jeff, you also said: "So, is this the new spin by labelling the imported Christmas and New Year turkey as haram?" Jakim did not say it is haram, so why are you suggesting otherwise? Just because it is not halal, does not AUTOMATICALLY make it haram, if you have knowledge about the halal/haram justification. I do not know what you mean by that sentence, but it sounds cynical to me.

JEFF OOI says: I am thinking out loud why we need all this when Muslims and non-Muslims are educated and informed enough to be well aware of their religious adherence; and the enforcement of the relevant laws regarding to food import in this country had been adequate? Why emphasise the "You-We" discrimination and the laws are well-defined and well-enforced if not to create an acutely more divisive society that have crawled for 49 years to learn to co-exist?

You also said: "The next time I meet Uncle Yap, I am going to ask him if we need strong voices against oppression by the majority." Are you accusing the muslim-led government (or worse, the muslim masses) of oppressing the non-muslims?

JEFFOOI says: You are being hopefully defensive to have to twist my words.

Think about what i said earlier regarding the availability of non-halal stuff in this country. Be thankful that you had been able to enjoy your char siew pau, your bak kut teh, long yoke (grilled pork meat), your sat khay ma, siew yoke (barbecued pork), your hum yoke chong (savoury dumpling), your beer, wine, and shandy; 4d, toto, genting highlands...

JEFF OOI says: Now, you have bastardised your own thoughts by going amok with your generalisation. There are pork consumers who don't play 4D, Toto or Genting. I am one. And by the way, the Malaysian government condones 4D, toto and genting to earn corporate income tax that goes to make you a beneficiary in lower road tax, income tax rebates, and build schools. Aren't you guilty of anti-Government for disputing its fiscal policy in allowing the "sin industry" to thrive and milk them?

Oppression is when you are denied of all those; so be thankful before you whine.

JEFF OOI says: Opp[ression is when veiled attempts are rearing their ugly heads. And this is the problem. Problems we didn't have 49 years ago have now come to haunt and roost us all on the eve of the 50th anniversary of Merdeka. Aren't we regressing in somany ways... divisive politics, religions, equity percentage, now even food stuff? Have you heard what meat importers say? Aren't the laws and enforcement governing food import NOT working properly that you need an affront to silence the voices (and food preferences) of the minority? I lent my ears to them and that's what I heard. And yes, we -- you and I and us -- can always look the other way.

myview_aia, it should be noted that most (if not all) non-halal food sold in wet markets or hypermarkets are sold in a separate section labeled "NON HALAL".

I don't understand what you're doing in the "pork" section. Also, its just lying there. Does its mere presence offend you so much.

If yes, what about the liquor section. DO you feel equally offended when you walk pass it or when you pass by pubs?

Wong Chun Wai once wrote in the Star that in the Middle East (save for countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran), you can order Pork Chop from the Menu in a 5 Star Hotel and Arabs, Muslims and non-Muslims are given the same menu. Why is that the case.

Understanding is something that goes both ways. Most non-Muslim respect the Muslim enough by not consuming non-halal food in their presence.

If I know that I have a Hindu friends, I will also refrain from ordering Beef.

Jeff, you're right. During my school days, there was no issue about sharing of food between Muslims and non-Muslims but now, over zealous school principlas want to ban non-Muslim school children from bringing in "wet food" but still want to serve beef in the school canteen.

myview_aia, I do hope you know that "understanding" and "respect" is a two-way street.

myview_aia,

first of all, thank you for clarifying the halal crisis I had with a bag of marshmallows from Cold Storage. They were delicious.

Anyways, after sending an e-mail to JAKIM, and asking a few others, it seems that there are halal turkeys slaughtered locally, so that solves my Thanksgiving dinner fiasco.

Being the indecisive nutcase I am, there are a few things you must consider before lambasting a person who points out his own opinion.

I doubt that he meant any disrespect towards our Islamic way of life.

Instead, I see him portraying relief with the fact that the open-mindedness of JAKIM to the requests of our non-Muslim population here in Malaysia.

Honestly, I think you had a negative angle of approaching his writing, and you saw all bad, thus explaining the word for word analysis.

I consider that prejudice.

OK, I guess I should've listened to myself than allow Jeff Ooi to "demonise" me...

Jeff ALWAYS have his way, why not, since this is his blog, his domain, his playing field.

I should also learn NOT to oppose what Jeff Ooi says... Experience should've taught me to always remember that...

People like Jeff Ooi is all over the place... No matter what the Muslim says, they (jeff and alikes) always have something to counter, as if they know Islam better than the muslims...

I am sure there are Muslims out there who read this posting, and most (I know not all!) agree with what I said. Only the non-muslims don't. Or is it, "refused" to?

Of course not all pork eater play 4d... I know that very well... for I come from a mostly-chinese background. I know what it is like being Chinese. Of course I know what I am writing about. I have been (and still am!) a muslim; something Jeff has NOT been... perhaps, there is something I know and understand about islam that jeff doesn't... And sharing that at jeff's domain is like playing with fire... I should know better than to argue with Jeff. JEFF NEVERS LOSES... Not even when he got into trouble with the authorities...

I guess I need to learn from mistakes... I am in my 40s... Do I pass off as older than Jeff? Well, I may not find out, and jeff (as usual, has the upperhand!) knows better. What relevance is age? It says a lot about what one has gone through. Eyewitness is the best witness...

Jeff wrote: "JEFF OOI says: Are you using your religious posturing to intimate the public?" Ha ha ha... Me, intimate the public? Or does jeff mean "intimidate"? Anyway, no, i cannot, not in jeff ooi's domain, i can't.

Jeff also wrote: "JEFF OOI says: I am thinking out loud why we need all this when Muslims and non-Muslims are educated and informed enough to be well aware of their religious adherence; and the enforcement of the relevant laws regarding to food import in this country had been adequate? Why emphasise the "You-We" discrimination and the laws are well-defined and well-enforced if not to create an acutely more divisive society that have crawled for 49 years to learn to co-exist?"

Well, jeff just need to approach JAKIM (if he has the slightess will), and find out how many local food manufacturers (specifically chinese) who use the jakim halal logo ILLEGALLY... If everyone is EDUCATED enough to not just adhere but RESPECT other people's religious obligations, why are there so much of misuse and abuse of the jakim halal logo??? But again, jeff will shoot back at me...

Ahhh... to complain or not to complain? Jeff ALWAYS wins...

OK, I can either choose to continue exchanging words with Jeff (and lose) or keep quiet (not amounting to a defeat or surrendering)... I have learned my lesson, I shall remain quiet... And as for jeff, i just pray that he gets his facts right, and before commenting about islam, at the bl**dy least, READ UP about the subject matter... but then again, you know about the kafirs... ha ha ha...

I would advice myview_aia to have a look in Indonesia, and how halal and non halal is separated there.
He might drop dead on the spot, because even in places like Makro, Carrefour and other big hypermarkets the difference is a sticker (tidak halal) or in the fresh dept. a glass plate separating chicken/meat/mutto and pork.
And there noone takes offence, only in Malaysia everything has been pushed to the limit for political gain!

myview_aia,

you know, as a person older than me, who has just passed my 23rd birthday, I am of the opinion that you are a Muslim conservative. Not that I have a problem with that.

However, on the halal logo issue, let us not simply blame the Chinese, shall we?

We have, in our Muslim society, people who use the Halal status as an item to slander businesses.

There was the rumour on Gardenia being a pig farm. Turns out the pig farm was a company bearing the same name in Australia.

There was a rumour about mineral water mixed with holy water. It turned out to be based on a google search which produced the word "Holy See".

Then now, there's a colgate fiasco, a biscuit fiasco and a turkey fiasco.

Forgive me for saying this, but I am 60% sure that these were all started by some obviously brilliant but twisted Malay Muslim who used the very paranoia of halal-haram to slander these businesses.

And I know more "kafirs", or "friends", as I call them who have more respect for Islam than the Muslims themselves.

myview_aia
I think the key word in your first post was 'paranoid'!
If I don't eat beef, (or beensprouts even, to give perspective here) for religious reasons, and I get paranoid walking past them in the supermarket or wetmarket, doesn't that say more about my state of mind generally, than the strength and quality of my religious conviction?

They are not banning those imported turkeys... we can still have our turkeys... Too bad our muslim friends will not be able to savour the mouth watering stuffed turkey prepared by their fellow Malaysian of other races... It is their loss. Who cares if some conservatives want to be paranoid. I am still having my turkey for Christmas. I am wondering whether JAKIM will start saying don't go to other religion festival makan because the food they serve may not be halal... hmmm.. Again who cares... It's their loss.

My view
Pardon me if it did sound as if I was poking fun. But the reality?? We...sorry, I better say I, and my family alike, have also been tolerant. Yes. I am Malaysian, and which is why I choose to follow, lets just look at this shall we? My mom is 75 years old, she enjoys her pork rice, and she undergoes dialysis. The Chinese Nurse told her to refrain from bringing pork to the centre because there are muslims there too, don't you agree that this is tolerance? I dont' remember ever having to hold and bag items myself, but nowadays, there is the non halal counter. . I was accused in my former office of poluting the common fridge, why, as a senior Manager, I had 'Mat Salleh' visitors, and I stocked up on cold beers in my fridge. (I was given the freedom to entertain these Kawi Loes for business purposes).
Lets not even go to being tolerant in having to be woken up at 5.30am . . .

I am not saying that I am against all this. But Personal Beliefs are best left at that, PERIOD! For your information, we (the roman catholic church) have also been tolerant in getting our building permits finally approved after 28 years!

Muslims, Catholics, Buddhists, Hindus, our beliefs are best left top ourselves. In the spirit of togetherness for the beneift of our country, lets remember that others exists too!

robin hood,

once again, I point out to you, that there are locally slaughtered turkeys which are halal.

and it is not actually thier loss for not being able to experience someone else's culture.

you see, this very reaction is why you have disgruntled citizens. you go around telling all the Muslims to share their religious views, and open up to others, and adapt to their surroundings. And then, you go and say, "oh the Muslims can't have turkey because it's haram, so kick them out of the Christmas and Thanksgiving dinners, and its their loss anyways."

I'm sorry, but what kind of ignorant crap is that?

So much for bangsa Malaysia.

As peace2all pointed out, "understanding" and "respect" is a two-way street.

And apparently, you're stuck in a roundabout.

"Well, jeff just need to approach JAKIM (if he has the slightess will), and find out how many local food manufacturers (specifically chinese) who use the jakim halal logo ILLEGALLY... If everyone is EDUCATED enough to not just adhere but RESPECT other people's religious obligations, why are there so much of misuse and abuse of the jakim halal logo???"

Granted there may be some who will abuse or do things illegally but not because they do not respect other people's religion as you so skillfuly twisted it to be but it was committed for the purpose of making money illegally. I don't think these people are interested to waste their time trying to disrespect the muslims at all. If these people have committed a crime or do something illegal, everyone, the Malays, Chineses, Indians and others would all support that these people be punished to the full extend of the law. We have better things to do than to insult or be disrespectful of other religions beliefs. Please do not be paranoid. How come we do not hear the Indians complaining about the Chinese being disrespectful to their beliefs and vice-versa? Think about it.

alliedmartster,

i agree on the point mentioned that religion should be kept to a personal level. and as one after another has pointed out, most of it is a case of paranoia and lacking knowledge.

for example, on a trip to a pet shop i touched a dog in front of a woman who was obviously a Muslim. As I played with this beagle, the owner and the woman both asked me if I was Chinese. When I said I was Malay, both of them were astounded by it.

But the thing is, the woman looked at me with disgust and walked away, whereas the Chinese guy looked on with awe. And so, I told him that

I just had to wash my hand with Earth to cleanse myself.

And yet, you see, the Malay woman in this example, explains the stance of the vast majority of the Malay populous within the country. Note that I say vast majority, and not all Malays.

Paranoid, conservative, uneducated, or miseducated, prejudiced and ignorant.

aput83,
"once again, I point out to you, that there are locally slaughtered turkeys which are halal."...
I agree... but with a statement like this from JAKIM, do you think our Muslim friends will ever want to eat at their non-muslim friends house?

"...and it is not actually thier loss for not being able to experience someone else's culture"
Again, you are putting your own comments into my comments. Did I mention anything about culture? NO! Like I said again, Our muslim friends (I mention conservatives!, not all Muslims, your statement is implying that) would no longer come and savour the food prepared by their non-muslim friends... Isn't that a loss of not being able to taste a different cooking style of turkey from non-muslim friends?...

"..you see, this very reaction is why you have disgruntled citizens. you go around telling all the Muslims to share their religious views, and open up to others, and adapt to their surroundings you see, this very reaction is why you have disgruntled citizens. you go around telling all the Muslims to share their religious views, and open up to others, and adapt to their surroundings. And then, you go and say, "oh the Muslims can't have turkey because it's haram, so kick them out of the Christmas and Thanksgiving dinners, and its their loss anyways."
Friend, it is not me who are being ignorant... since when I go around to tell muslims to share.....? I have never said that... again, you are putting your own words into my mouth!. Did I say that muslims can't have turkey for thanksgving or christmas? You are a really good manipulator. Non-Muslims prepares the food and everyone is invited... But again, with JAKIM's statement, WILL THEY COME AND ACCEPT THE INVITATION, even if the person who invited them says they are HALAL?? I know some of my muslim friends wouldn't mind...they have eaten the food my family prepare for ages. Again... will JAKIM's statement change their mind? I bet the conservatives would.

Looks like you are the one going round and round the roundabout.. and making others feel dizzy with your statements. I am glad I am stuck.

If Jeff (for whatever reasons) invites everyone here for dinner and he claims to be halal... Will you come?

i know a vegan who likes sausage. 'she don't eat meat but she sho likes da bone.'

you know ... this food thing has only served to divide ppl further. i say everybody eat everything and everything will be alright.

robin hood,

forgive me for the common generalisation of placing you within the group of those individuals who are supporting a united Bangsa Malaysia. I guess I was wrong to place you among the members who wish for cultural integration.

My bad.

however, on the issue of Jeff giving me an invite to a dinner, which is highly unlikely, of course I'll come! provided there's a map to his house, and he didn't burn the turkey, which takes 6 hours to cook, it should turn out to be a lovely dinner.

considering that my dad is a conservative and I'm a progressive, I think he'd enjoy the dinner as well.

I wasn't too sure what Jeff meant in the post, so I went back to the Bernama article. This is what I understood it as:

Given the higher demand for turkey during the Christmas season, Malaysia has had to import turkey from non-halal sources. Since there are halal turkeys in the supermarkets, they've had to impose guidelines (perhaps in labelling) when it comes to where such products are positioned in supermarkets so that Muslim consumers and those purchasing for Muslim consumption don't automatically assume that ALL turkeys sold are certified to be halal.

To the other comments, I've had Muslim friends who cook for me for Christmas etc and I've cooked for non-Muslim friends who have dietary requirements as well (whether it's due to religion or health reasons). The guideline here, when entertaining for anyone for that matter, is to ask. Ask if they have any dietary restrictions, or if the menu u plan to prepare is ok with them.

The problem that our country is facing is that,on the ground level, it is being managed by over zealous officials and the Malay media is not helping to make things better.

To make things worse, the Govt is afraid to take action as this would mean that PAS is more Islamic.

Just to quote an example of the "Kongsi Raya" as "Unislamic" controversy. A prominent Mufti makes a remark, the Media plays it up, with views both and for against. Then, finally the Govt. makes a statement distancing itself from the Mufti but the Mufti is still around and continues to make baseless statements and still, no action is taken against him. The latest being the SMS issue.

I believe that many moderate Muslims have no qualms about going to open houses of other religions and eating there in the past but when they read about prominent officials saying this and that, its bound to make even the most moderate Muslim rethink.

Still, I believe that if they know te host well, they will still eat and if its just a casual colleague, they would probably still eat but only limiting themselves to cookies and cakes.

myview_aia,

Let's not make an issue out of here. Nobody is wining, nobody is 'demonising' you, and nobody is poking fun at anybody.

I remember years ago, on one occasion where I bought a packet of non-halal hams, in those days (at least the one I went to), even though there's a non-halal section, but you still need to bring the goodies to the row of cashiers out front. So I had this packet of hams and brought it to a Malay cashier, it never occured to me the discomfort I might have caused upon her(I was less than 15 yrs old, then). She didn't utter any expression of disgust, but she was being careful and only touching the edge of the wrapper with a plastic bag, and so I told myself if I ever buy stuff like this, I am not going to a Malay cashier. (is this not tolerant enough?)

On another occasion, my father realizing that the stuffs he bought were deemed 'non-halal' personally requested empty plastic bags from the cashier, and instead handled them himself, lest the cashier would feel uncomfortable. (is this not tolerant enough?)

And yet on another occasion (as told by my brother), there was this friend of my brother's who is a Malay, who happened to join his 'clique', they went for lunch after school. and so the chinese friends joked; "want to go and eat pork nooddles?" the malay guy quickly declined. Even though it was merely a joke, the rest of them understand so well, how uncomfortable it would be for him, and every lunch time, they decided to eat at the local malay stalls instead. (is this not tolerant enough?)

Myview_aia, you are right when you said, I'm never a Muslim, so I'll never be able to understand your exact feeling. Yes, I won't.

And you also said be thankful to all char siew pau, bak kut teh and so and so, 4D, toto, gambling.... why stop there, so do prostitution, cracks, marijuana, estacy...

In fact, I should be thankful to have a place to live in, air to breathe, food to eat, and friends all around....

There can never be a cultural integration. We all have uniquely different cultures and religions. IMHO the Bangsa Malaysia idea is just a propanda for BN. I respect other people's religions and it's their right. Like what you have pointed out peace2all quote... Each of us need to respect and understand one another. That's what make our country unique. Where in the world where u can find so many different cultures in one country?

I am only sad that things that we had in the past where Abu, Ah Chong and Mutu are able to live together happily without having any prejudices against one another. And why this is happening? Because of statements being made by that insurance guy and that jakim guy and of course many others that have poisoned the minds of Abu, Ah Chong and Mutu for the past 50 years...

"Each of us need to respect and understand one another. That's what make our country unique..."

How very true! But there are some powers-to-be that will always use this to cause discord so that they can divide and rule...unfortunately we have always the uneducated, the dumb, the blind, and the plain stupid who will be mislead and made used of by others to achieve the greedy goals.

Who are these people? Just look at who are the people who are inciting racial issues today purportedly to fight and defend the rights of a particular race against another race. These are your satans of today's world. Abu, Ah Chong and Muthu are dead but we can still all have many other Abu, Ah Chongs and Muthus who can sit, eat and drink together again.......if we want to. Vote wisely to bring back Abu, Ah Chong and Muthu together again.

[ DELETED - Off tangent ]

Dear Mr. Jeff,

The way you brought up this issue made you no better than those kerismen at the recent UMNO GA. What Jakim did is within their ambit as a body entrusted to look after muslim rights. So..what the fuss is all about???

JEFF OOI says: You are asking questions asked and answered before. Why won't you and don't you spend your productive time emphasising our similarities rather than projecting our differences?

Correct, Luncai!

As far as I can recall (and i am above 40!), the government NEVER banned turkey being imported into the country for Christmas. This has been so since Cold Storage (at the site of the current The Weld) days. I don't see why the fear that imported food is going to be banned. Of course, if we're suspecting the originating country is having some animal disease epidemic, we'd be complete fools to let their food come in. But never... Never had the government disallow the import of turkey. I know because I am one of those who actually bought turkey to bake during Christmas. Not to celebrate, but to try out new recipes... So really, you are right... Why the fuss???

JEFF OOI says: This gives me the impression that you are intent on hearing your own echo chamber and missing out the context of this blog topic -- which had sermoned to deflect and distract..

Jeff, since you are ultra-smart (smarter than me), please tell me what the fuss is all about. Take this as a personal challenge.

Err...Luncai,

FYI... Jeff brought it up becos this is HIS blog. So I think he has the right to wave his "turkey" around as much as those jokers in UMNO have their right to wave their keris about.

Anyway, I think it is interesting that he brought the subject up although I have never had any Christmas turkey before.

Err... Anyone wants to invite me over for turkey?? And yes.. it doesn't have to be halal!

jakim just announced to the muslim that they cannot consumed imported turkey. thats all. there's no import ban. non muslim still can buying it. this is a non issue.

kuncisudu and luncai... you see things clearer than the host... Jeff, u hear that? NON-ISSUE. They still allowed import, albeit no halal certification. Want me to repeat that?

JEFF OOI says: I can now clearly see the case of your amok to twist my perspective. I said QUOTE: According to a Bernama story yesterday, Malaysian Islamic Development Department (Jakim) director-general, Mustafa Abdul Rahman said all imported turkey products in the market from November 19 will be deemed non-halal.

As such, Muslims are advised not to consume imported turkey and turkey-based products meant for the Christmas and New Year celebrations as they are not halal.

Nevertheless, Jakim also said the government had allowed the import of the products specially for the two occasions.

Hence I said in preclusion, that: "Somehow, Uncle Yap's fears may now be relieved a little."

But that did not allay the ensuing efforts by those buggers to plunge a discriminatory hedge against the social fabrics of Bangsa Malaysia we have been trying to nurture in the past 49 years! THIS IS THE CONTEXT.

JacknJill,

yes this is jeff's personal space but what he featured is not just affecting him alone.

JEFF OOI says: Indeed. What those buggers did affect millions of "Uncle Yaps" out there.

If JAKIM really has nothing better to do, they should think about how Halal or Haram our currency notes are as millions of notes exchange hand in wet and meats markets each day.

Harry,
[ DELETED - Irrelevant to this blog topic.

all muslim should thankful to jeff, with his blog we know what non-muslim fearful or thinking about our rules or muslim lifes.

let them speak out, said whatever they think, so that everyone will know more about each other

If Harry and ctruth has nothing better to do, maybe both of you can think and work for Jakim.

C'mon guys. Tell me with plain words, what did Jakim ever do to hurt you guys?

Did the ice cream get banned?
Did you lose out on your turkey?

Tell me now, if anyone here has ever suffered from the consequence of JAKIM's actions and I will lie down quietly.

I thought JAKIM was overboard with the ice cream cross thingy but in Malaysia, stupidity and foolish reactions transcends creeds, religions and race.

Non-issue.

Uncle Yap, go eat your turkey. I dont understand why you have those fears.
Stop worrying Jeff and others, Uncle Yap. You may be no better than Raja Sherina at getting people excited over nothing.

Non-issue.

On a trip to Australia , at market, i met a Muslim butcher from Bahrain who was handling and selling pork !

With the little knowledge of Islam i have, i asked him how could he be doing this afterall, isn't this forbidden in Islam.

He replied nonchalantly... " that pork is for my business, NOT for my comsumption"

i thought of this incident when i read some one post, "You have no idea what paranoia the muslims get everytime they walk past the pork section of wet markets"

So, maybe some learned muslim can enlightened us all about what's exactly the deal of pork in Islam for the benefit of the non-muslims.

BTW Jeff, please delete this posting if it's OFF TANGENT.

Paranoid? Overreact?

For a country that don't honor social contract, Uncle Yap voice is just a precautions measurement.

Remember, the country are declare as secular during independent. And with a word from the T.M., the contract turned and ditch into South China Sea.

Jeff, are you saying that Jakim's move to deem imported turkey as non-halal is "plunges a discriminatory hedge against the social fabrics of Bangsa Malaysia we have been trying to nurture in the past 49 years"?

If not, please add more clarity to the thrust of your argument. It appears from the comments that I'm not the only one doesn't get what you're trying to say. We can't all be obtuse, and I KNOW that Najah is one pretty smart chick.

For all its faults, Jakim's efforts are generally appreciated by most Muslims, so I sure hope they were not who you meant as "buggers". I, for one, am glad that they clarifying the halal status of imported turkeys. If I'm invited to any Christmas dinner, I'll still go, but will stick to the cranberry sauce and mince pies.

I can't see why I can't accept my non-muslim friends' hospitality and be a good muslim at the same time.

holiday,

hrm...did anyone get hurt..businesses have gotten hurt due to JAKIM's slow efforts.

examples include 1901 (the hotdog), Gardenia and now, apparently, Colgate

Dear folks,

There're certain things in our live that we may put for argument. But this issue for many of muslims out there is rather sensitive. When Jakim did make that announcement, it doesn't meant to insult those non-muslims.These Jakim people were merely issuing precautionary statements to muslims community. At the end of the day, its up to individual to decide.In reality, not every muslims will follow any of JAKIM's guidelines. Islamic teaching is not about ruling. Its shall be seen as a guidance as every one irrespective muslim or not is not born as a robot. So, choose your wisdom to seek your eternal freedom.

Jeff, sorry to say, sometimes you blog some really good topics that we can learn something on. However, at times, you bring up a topic or two that are so lame, that you yourself dont quite understand, and failing to moderate the wild views of yr readers, at the end make you so stupid.

Anyway, I never fail to read yr good blog, and gain somethin from the discussion.

Cheers

Hi bohemian grove,

I share your sentiments. With your post, definetely it is come into conclusion.

Hindus segregated themselves by caste. Now, we do it in the name of religion. What's da diff?

The fact that we are even discussing this issue shows you how far and long our country has came to - idle in time.

Wait, it is actually going backwards.....

RobinHood,

(not to be off subject but in responce to your one statement:)
" Where in the world where u can find so many different cultures in one country?"

Actually Malaysia is "NOT" that cultural different, there are many, many countries that have FAR more cultures and races then Malaysia can ever hope of coming close to. The USA has more than cultures and ethnicities (races) then any other country in the world, there you will find: White and Black Americans, also Blacks from every country in Africa and the Carribean, as well as people and cultures from Europe (England, Russia, Kazakhstan, Germany, Italy, Spain, France, etc) as well as Asia Minor, South East Asia, etc, etc.

So to you wil find in the UK, in just about every European country, Even Russia ahs more then 20 ethnicities and more then 30 different cultures in their boundry. I am not saying anything bad about Malaysia or your comment but please let's not jump on the bandwagon that the government always tries to promote as Malaysia being one of just a very select few countries in the world with various cultures and races. Fact is it is actually one of the smallest in the world for different cultures and races, with only 3 main cultures and races and then a distant 4th being the Aboriginals. This is an undistbuted fact which is easily backup up by the UN, UNESCO, World Bank, and many other agencies. Usually when a country tries to openly and "always" tries to promote that it is a racially open society, it usually is the opposite because those that are, do nto need to keep reminding people they are peacful.

come on Jeff Ooi...admit it...they (especially Luncai & myview_aia) got you! you jumped the gun this time...and they were justified when they asked, "What's the fuss?"

the proof is not in your reply to myview_aia but here in your own piece..."This could be an about-turn from Jakim as market talks among meat importers have been rife recently that non-halal meat like turkey might be prevented from entering Malaysia."

(so Jeff Ooi has joined the ranks of Raja Sherina and other inciters of racial/religious hatred, it would appear! furthermore, how could a journalist sink so low as to mention "murmuring in the meat market" as basis of his report!...ala TV3, I suppose, when they once use an anonymous email to "belittle" Tun Mahathir.)

"There had been murmuring in the meat market that subtle pressure to prevent the no-import instruction was mounted by the industry, while this has caused many Christians to have to think of alternatives to the traditional turkey for Christmas.

(in this instance who do you think is actually doing the spinning?)

"So, is this the new spin by labelling the imported Christmas and New Year turkey as haram?

For that matter, as Chinese New Year is coming soon, are waxed duck made in China allowed for import into Malaysia? We wonder."

need I point out that the above quotes from you are just your own perceptions?

All that JAKIM did was to announce that "Muslims are advised not to consume imported turkey and turkey-based products meant for the Christmas and New Year celebrations as they are not halal."

that's all there is to it!

all the other stuff you wrote were...well, the product of your own "fertile journalistic imagination!" (although I wonder if the word "INfertile" would have been more appropriate in this instance?)

come on now, Jeff Ooi...just own up...this is a NON-ISSUE and you have just been caught out at your own game!

lastly, I think you are doing a good job here, so keep it up...however, just don't get too carried away.

Dear myview_aia,

Just a gentle reminder that there is no such thing as "non muslim must be thankful for being able to perform non-muslim activities" in Malaysia.

The activities that you mentioned was not listed as illegal activities in this country, which is a multi racial country

By the way, just don't understand why is it still multi racial... aren't we all MALAYSIANS???

Jeff...oh, another thing...do people have turkey for New Year?

well, you wrote this, "So, is this the new spin by labelling the imported Christmas and New Year turkey as haram?"

furthermore...where did the word "haram" come from? certainly NOT from the Bernama report or JAKIM!

mmm, I wonder who is doing the spinning here?

Aiyah....whats all the fuss....Turkey meat sucks anyway :)

myview_aia,

This is what many of Malays or Muslims fail to understand as well......Malaysia does not belong only to the Malays.

We are born here and do not know any better...You and I should be the same...Malaysian! So please do not say that we should be 'thankful' for this and that.....

pak_helah

I'm sorry, but you know what? He's presenting his point of view and his personal opinions.

Can you give me a link to your blog so I can give my own personal comments about how wrong your thinking is?

See, everyone really needs to consider that this is where Jeff gives his ideas. It is not pak_helah.com, it is not aput83.com, or even jigsawpuzzle.com

So if you guys have are going to bash someone based on their opinion on an issue, do it in your own space.

JEFF OOI says: Read my original blog entry and my point-by-point rebuttal to reader myview_aia timelined November 21, 2006 11:16 AM.

After 49 years of Merdeka, have Malaysians liberated their mindset to be merdeka? Are we divisive or more knitted? DON'T let your Bangsa Malaysia idealism (as encased in policy when Vision 2020 was announced) go amok! Discriminating against and Oppressing the minority's rights -- even to foodstuff choices when prevalent laws and norms are clear -- doesn't a noble majority make.