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"Is religuious intolerance running so deep among us?"

I think this is not about religious intolerence. It is their perception or interpretation of their religious rights and wrongs. I am a non muslim and I don't take this issue as serious at it may seem. In fact, first we should ask if what Muhd Fauzi said was correct or not according to the tenets of Islam. If that is the case, end of story. Otherwise, we should ask why it took one week for this thing to be rectified or if otherwise, then what prompted for some to declare wishing Happy Deepavali was wrong?

Let's not take this too seriously lah. My perception of this issue is that it is purely a minority, who in a way, should be allowed to do what they want. Democracy and all.

For a Muslim, when the issue is involving "aqidah", it is important. No matter how trivial it may seem.

I am confused.

A statement was made followed by apology.

So is it REALLY OK for a muslim to wish the hindus "Happy Deepavali".

Entahlah ...... So confusing nowadays.

Dear Jeff, I know this is a Malaysian runned site, however could someone please translate what was said there, as I do nto speak or read Malay?

This is a classic case of "absoluteness" taking away the values of brotherhood and humanity. Let us hope the apology is sincere and the counterpart forgiving. Otherwise there is no end in trying to be godlier than GOD Himself.

It's really Scary! What CI and Kamil have written here is , I feel, what is the prevailing attitudes of the muslims and the nons. Malaysia is in deep sh**t! I am glad I have no grandchildren to leave behind in this intolerant and bigoted country.

Religious intolerance? 'fraid they don't see it as such. They see it as word-for-word compliance to their interpretations of those edicts. For them, human conscience seems to be an artificial construct. One would think it should be the other way, i.e. if our human conscience fails to shine the right action, then we resort to what the edict should say. But it's the other way around with them. I guess that's what religion is all about. In the end, what happens? In the end, you won't be sure that what the religious man does is done motivated more by his human conscience (or parental upbringing) than by his faith in the interpretations, by him or his religious teacher, of a collection of edicts originating somewhere remote by space and time from where the calling to a judgement is to be made.

I hear nematodes have no conscience.

Folks

Don't over react.

This Mohd Fauzi fool is being put in his place. He had been disregarded by the religious authorities.

What matters now is whether the authorities will call for his sacking so that he can have all the time to go to Afghanistan and join those turban-wearing Talibans to share his version of Islam, with the Americans looking across his shoulders. Or he can book a ticket to Guantanamo Bay for a free holiday. We all can chip in for his airfare, first class.

Holy molly, now some people don't use common sense anyone.

Frank&Honest, you kidding me right? People like Mohz Fauzi will normally get a promotion in such organisation.

[ DELETED by Jeff Ooi ]

When I say "Salam mualaikum" to a muslim in Malaysia, I get that stare as though I am offending them cos I am a Chinese. Some friends have even mentioned to me that only muslims can greet like that. When I was in Karachi Pakistan and greet Pakistanis "salam alekum", the greet back and gave me an appreciation and brotherly hug. I feel more at ease in a foreign muslim country than in my own muslim country.

i hope we this kinda shit stops ASAP. its saddening to see our so called MULTI CULTURE country being more and more influenced by religious zealots, we are now turning into a Taliban State..

Im sure our BN fellas wudnt care coz it has nothing todo with UMNO.
sad sad day.
Happy Eid Mubarak and Happy Deepavali

Time and again, we see non-multicultural thinking like these. Makes me wonder, if I should pack up and migrate for the sake and future of my children. *sigh*

If there are more of these narrow minded people there will come a day when public holidays such as Deepavali, Easter and Chinese New Year will be abolished. Aren't these holidays celebrating the religions of non Muslims?

susmaryosep;

What is so scary with what I wrote? It involved "aqidah".

For example if a muslim's intention of greetings non-muslims on their religious festival is for friendship it is okay. But if his intention is to glorifying or to honor the gods of the non-muslims than it is haram.

Another example, if it is just greetings it is okay, if it is just visiting non-muslims during their religious festivals for the sake of friendship it is okay. But if a muslim celebrate the non-muslims religious festival it is not okay.

It is okay to send greeting cards for non-muslims as long as the cards do not carry any religious symbols of that particular religion.

So what is so scary about that? Or are you expecting the muslims to not just greet you but also to celebrate with you by praying side-by-side with you during your religious festivals?

Dear Jan,

Chinese New Year is not a religous festival. It is a cultural festival to celebrate the arrival of spring and the start of fresh harvest cycle. Chinese of all religion can and do celebrate it.

What about celebrating Deepavali, Christmas, Hanukah or whatever religious festivals by observing the holidays. Will that count too as celebrating and considered Haraam?

Kamil,
Thanks for your explanation to an ignoramus like me. Maybe you can explain it in EXACTLY the same manner to that guy in Takaful who wrote the 'clarification' email, and also to any others who think likewise? Thanks, my appreciation.

If most Muslims REALLY believe in ALL that you wrote, then maybe, just maybe I won't feel scary!

Can you really distinguish between a religious and cultural festival? Christmas for example, can be considered as both religious and cultural festival. So can we greet Merry Christmas and observe the holiday. If you follow Fauzi's reasoning it is haraam.

I don't understand... why should Telekom have a HAL EHWAL ISLAM in its organization? It is a GLC and it should reflect the composition of society. It should then have a Spiritual Department for all because I am sure that there are personnel who are non-muslims working in that organization too.

I agree with fauzi and I myself never greet my non-muslim friend with 'happy deepavali or merry christmas'. How could I agree with their religion which invalidate my belief that there is no god but Allah. Its faith/aqidah matter and its a pillar in islam.

Your religion is yours, mine is mine. Did we ask you all to greet muslim 'selamat hari raya' or giving 'assalamualaikum'? if you do that it is your own initiative but we muslim never ask you guys to practice what we greet/pray unless you becoming a muslim.

Rosman,

Why stops at greeting? You should not take a leave on Christmas and Deepavali. Observing the holiday can be considered as violating your aqidah too.

Rosman;

So Nik Aziz should go to Hell for giving donations to Tok Cha in Kelantan?

As a matter of fact, observing holiday on Sunday originates from Christian religious tradition and Saturday from Jewish religious tradition. That's why some Malay states make Friday instead of Sunday as holiday. So those who wear Fauzi's thinking cap should only take rest on Friday.

rosman

In Afghanistan, even the Talibans showed appreciation when non Muslims wished them assalammailukum.

And they also wished the Anmericans Merry Christmas.

Now I wonder which part of the Muslim world you should belong to ? Definitely not in Malaysia with your kind of belief.

Surely not in Kelantan as even Tok Guru Nik Aziz is tolerant of other religions in Kelantan than you or any of the over zealous religious fanatics in UMNO Youth or UMNO.

You should take your haj soon, if you haven't and maybe in Mekkah, you can get some divine enlightenment on your dangerous attitude to non Muslims.

People like Fauzi, Rosman, etc not entirely incorrect. They may be politically incorrect but that's another issue.
Perhaps Islam, my religion, is against pluralism. How do you explain why the people of Saudi Arabia is almost 100% of Islamic belief? In fact, I was told and still being told that it is the duty of every Muslim to convert every inch of this world to submit to Allah.
That's why it makes me sick to see Pas leaders acting to be friendly to non-Muslim.

rs,

RS, are you aware that even to Christians, their God is Almighty - not unlike your Allah.

But their attitude towards pluralism differs greatly.

You judge for yourself which approach is better suited to a multicultural society in the modern word.

By the way, I'm not a Christian. In fact I'm agnostics. So, I am not taking sides - just for the record.

In my humble opinion, Fauzi and his like - are probably right from a theological stand point. And we cannot stop them for saying what they think is right.

However, those with the knowledge can always counter their views in a civil and intellegent manner (and without insinuating anything).

It's up to the rakyat to judge for themselves who is talking more sense.

After all, if the rakyat cannot decide for themselves over this rather minor issue - what hope have we got when it comes to election time?

Thus, at the end of the day, let's not make ppl embarassed for their believes - especially when then commit no crime.

Freedom to be heard is the cornerstone of a civil society.

everytime tv repeats the movie by P.Ramlee, i'll normally watch for a while (that's the initial intention) but ended up watching the whole movie ...

i asked myself why only P.Ramlee's movie attracted me but not other latest malay movie ... i came to realised that the storyline, the multi-racial actors, the way P.Ramlee making fun of other race and vice versa without hurting the feeling of the other race, the liberal way of dressing code are some of the "way of life" which i enjoyed back then ...

i mixed with malay and indian more than chinese and i can speak fluency malay (till today) ... mind you i score distinction for bahasa malaysia (back then you are a celebrity if you score 8As in SRP) ...

but now, it seems the racial sentiment is so deep planted within the society that we hardly speak to each other (don't talk about festival greetings and visits) from the other race ...

back then it was almost a "MUST" to greet each other during festival, my mum will give some "kuih" (halal) to neighbor's malay family during chinese new year ... and when it's hariraya, we'll definately received ketupat & rendang from the same neighbor ... we trusted each other with our food ... it's the most spectacular view of the time ...

sadly, politicians became greedy and started enriching themselves instead of every citizen masking themselves behind DEB ... they adopt the "divide & conquer" which work superbly in achieving what we have today ...

some of them went to the extreme of religious to divide the already "fragile" racial-relationship ... and it'll only get worse if govn is not sincere in reforming the racial-harmony thru transparency and fair-distribution be it in education, economies, social-integration and so on ...

http://stocktube.blogspot.com

rs,
you're right, we should not stop at greetings, muslim should not holidaying on other religions holiday.

kamil,
stop your stupid analogy of danation. that money comes from all rakyat not only muslim'm money, its also from buddhist money.

Frank&Honest(i doubted),
What on hell are you taking Talibans as true muslim? Stop comparing talibans as a pure muslim, you just try to make muslim world like what US try to make(Taliban=True Muslim). Come talk like gentleman to me, email me so we can have some educated talk about islam. Tolerate does not mean I should be agree with your religion.

rs,
its your duty to dakwah, wheater they will convert or not its Allah duty, not yours. Why you sick at Pas people, you must be munafiq type who cant stand see other people try to do good things.

Others,
Try will all your knowledge to proof that what fauzi or I said is wrong? Just come out with whatever hujjah/nas that you have

I've informed Jeff many months ago concerning the sermons in Mosques, particularly the one at Mindef, KL. After 9/11, it was jihad sermons all the way especially after US invaded afghanistan. The mosque at bukit aman is peaceful by comparison. Anyway, I have quit listening to muftis and clerics. Religion divides.
Christians used to suffer similar fate some 500 yaers ago, when those deemed herectics were burnt alive. The Christians of today now spend very little time listening to their priest and have progresed.I believe it is the turn of the muslims to do the same.
It seems to me that the more time humans devote their lives to religion, the more backward they become. Some of the poorest nations on earth are religiously devoted. That would include saudi arabia if not for their oil wealth.

"It seems to me that the more time humans devote their lives to religion, the more backward they become. Some of the poorest nations on earth are religiously devoted. That would include saudi arabia if not for their oil wealth."

Sorry, but that fallible notion of yours could be applied to non-religious as well for example atheists. The atheist communist empire of Mao and Stalin for example, has been responsible for losses of hundreds of millions of innocent lives.

Generalising religion based on actions of majority extremists is a little bit too simplistic.

As a non-Muslim, I can tolerate rosman not wishing me merry xmas if I was a christian for example. It is his right after all. I am very sure his kind of belief is not exclusive in Islam alone.

"Generalising religion based on actions of majority extremists is a little bit too simplistic."

sorry majority should be replaced with MINORITY. My bad.

rosman;

Various fatwa said that greeting is okay but celebration is not okay. And these fatwas are not from people like you but people with more religious knowledge. If you think that the fatwas is wrong that it is for your own consumption and not to be imposed for others. For the majority, the fatwa stands.

In the case of Nik Aziz example, it does not matter where the money came from. What is important is the act of giving. The act of being at the temple (such as at the opening of temple in Kuala Krai). The act of being among the sami with their full robe. Does it not in the same category as the "seolah-olah" participating in non-muslims activities as used by Fauzi.

Also what about the act of Husam Musa of putting both palms together in respect for Dr. K Sri Dhammananda during his visit to the funeral. In Islam we do not put our palms together during funeral visit. It must be Buddhism practise.

If the above examples by Nik Aziz and Husam are considered okay, then why the act of greeting is not okay?

Could all these be an intended distraction so that you guys will not focus on the NEP 45% issue? We are good at diversion tactics.

With all these negative news about festive greetings lately, I feel really depressed. I still remember the good days when everyone respected each other and had no qualms sharing a meal together. We joined each other's festivities with vigour.No such thing as you hindu, you sikh , you chinese, i cannot join.

I have not changed but why have some of us changed. sigh !!!

Happy Diwali and Selamat Hari Raya everyone.

rosman

As much as the Talibans say they are true Muslims, it is the same as you saying you are a true Muslim.

Who are you to say that you are more Muslim than the Taliban.

The way you present Islam, makes me think you and the Taliban are no different in the interpretation of Islam.

The Shia and Wahabi Muslims think they are truer believers of Islam than you.

You do NOT have the monopoly of the knowledge of the Al Quran. Secondly, Arabic is NOT your mother tongue.

So you don't come and tell me you know more about Islam than the next Muslim.

Its people like you who think they have the correct version of Islam, which when looked deeper, is shallower than those who use Islam to terrorise other people.

mork

Have faith. Not everyone in Malaysia has changed for the worse.

It is some idiots with a sense of power andwith a weird interpretation of their religion that is creating the ill-will in the country. And some weirdo-followers who also agrew with this Weirdo Ustas Mohd Fauzi (one of them is on this blog) who are spreading the divisive aspects of Islam.

Islam is an inclusive religion. Take it from me.

It becomes exclusive because of some over zealous religious idiots in the country who have their own personal interpretation.

This transitional phase will pass.. the religious bigotry we are facing since the last 10-15 years have nothing to do with the religion per se. It is now rearing its ugly head is because UMNO and UMNO Youth, fearing the political clout of PAS during elections, are trying to outdo PAS in their bid to win the Malay heartland.

And being in power, UMNO uses the instruments of Govt to use Islam for its own political purpose.

We, Muslims and non Muslims are now paying that price for UMNO's political abuse of religion to try to marginalise PAS in the Malay heartland.

You see that in Govt departments, in schools with the kind of Headmasters and Headmistresses who enforce their Islamic credentials way beyond the powers of the Federal Constitution, all withh the silent blessing of the UMNO Ministers in Government.

Ordinary Muslims all over the world and in Malaysia are more tolerant than you know.

History has proven that Islam is more tolerant than other religions when it comes to governing peoples of other religions. It was the Muslims who saved the Jews from the Crusaders in Palestine.

I still have faith in basic human nature. Something which people like "rosman" does not understand or live by based on his own version of Islam.

rosman

If you are too worried about wishing others during their religious festival etc, I suggest you wear gloves when you handle the RINGGIT (paper and coins).

You just do not know through whose hands those notes and coins had gone through.. pork butchers, charkoayteow sellers, pigfarmers, etc etc.

So if you are worried about other religions that you might get yourself religiously contaminated, think hard each time you hold those RINGGITS in your hands and putting them in your wallet.

My advice for people like you : Wear gloves the next time you count your money, or ask your UMNO masters to have a separate kind of Ringgits for people like you and Ustaz Mohd Fauzi.

"HARAM WEI DUIT KO PEGANG TAKDE COP HALAL"

like, seriously. OMG

good one, btw ^^

"you're right, we should not stop at greetings, muslim should not holidaying on other religions holiday."
why stop there?

don't pay taxes! you are funding the very gomen that's helping the haram2 people doing haram2 bisnes! OMG TAXES ARE HARAM

"It seems to me that the more time humans devote their lives to religion, the more backward they become. Some of the poorest nations on earth are religiously devoted. That would include saudi arabia if not for their oil wealth."

Sorry, but that fallible notion of yours could be applied to non-religious as well for example atheists. The atheist communist empire of Mao and Stalin for example, has been responsible for losses of hundreds of millions of innocent lives."

To mishugina
The trouble with communism was that stalin and Mao probably elevated their status to be "God-like" as they do not believe in one. That was Pharaoh's situation also during the time of Moses.

God's messages to humans were consistent. Moses was sent to counter Pharoah (who had a religion), who was a chief priest and later declared himself God (National Geographic).
Jesus was sent to counter the people of the jewish faith(another religion),. Mohamed, he was sent to abolish a pagan arab religious cult who were stone worshippers.
The consistency in this is that is seems, all messengers of God were sent to denounce religion.

mishugina,
Communist states of Mao and Stalin failed as they do not beleive in God, hence the leaders elevated their position to a God like status. Thus the anhilation of millions.This can be considered as another form of religion.

But to me, God's messenger were consistently against any form of religion. Moses was against Pharoah/Jesus was against Jewish religion/Abraham was against any form of idol worship/Mohamed was against Pagan arab religious cult who worshipped stones.

Hence presently, the countries that ignored religion, are progressing in the right direction. Canada/US/Australia/ whilst Russia has gone backwards as they found a new fondness for Orthodox brand of christianity. China and most chinese have abandoned any form of religion an look at their growth rates.
japan in Shintoism or buddhism seldom do any form of worship if at all.

Rosman said:
"I agree with fauzi and I myself never greet my non-muslim friend with 'happy deepavali or merry christmas'. How could I agree with their religion which invalidate my belief that there is no god but Allah. Its faith/aqidah matter and its a pillar in islam.
Your religion is yours, mine is mine. Did we ask you all to greet muslim 'selamat hari raya' or giving 'assalamualaikum'? if you do that it is your own initiative but we muslim never ask you guys to practice what we greet/pray unless you becoming a muslim."

Rosman,
Eh? I thought 'assalamualaikum' simply means 'may peace be upon you' in Arabic? What's wrong if a non-Muslim would just like to wish others well in another language (Arabic)? I don't see any religious connotations in that phrase. You sounded like you own that phrase, dude. Aren’t you glad that others are acknowlegding your religion, trying to respect and understand it? :-)
It's just like a Mexican saying 'kan vrede op u zijn' (Dutch: may peace be upon you) to a Dutch man. Nothing wrong, kan?

And what's wrong with wishing others well... wishing others happy? Not that you are celebrating it, as Kamil said. I thought Islam recognises the existance of other religions. But what was said sounded so narrow-minded, so lack of confidence and belief for his own religion.

Have a nice day, Rosman and Fauzi. (Am I invalidating my language [Mandarin] now that I greeted you in English?) ;-p

You must sympathise with rosman, an executive in a foreign owned bank, whose living is paid for by sucking the blood of borrowers in terms of interest payment. He is the hypocrite that we all should avoid.

The problem is the holier than thou attitude and the perception that one is the supreme being with a supreme religion.

We can continue to churn up many religious graduates with no economic values and once they have the narrow minded view that life is about after life, syurga dan neraka then Malaysia may be heading for religius extremism. I hope the day will not come.

quote: The trouble with communism was that stalin and Mao probably elevated their status to be "God-like" as they do not believe in one.

Valid. But remember absolute power corrupts, just as you illustrate perfectly. Not religion. Religion is just an excuse for the corrupt to consolidate their power. Convenient for mullahs giving fatwas commanding death of infidels. Convenient for Catholics priests to subjugate children to submission of their sexual will and covering up their crime etc.

It's pretty funny how you use mentioned that these prophets you mentioned were sent to denounce religion. All the prophets you mentioned were sent to a time where immorality was very rampant and religious authorities have lost their purpose to guide people. Muhammad preached his word at the time of Jahillah and that was considered as vile as the Sodom and Gomorrah period, yet God sent a prophet instead of flaming balls of sulphur. If you said Muhammad was sent to counter religion, why didn't he abolish Christianity and Judaism the way he abolishes the stone cult worshippers? Meanwhile Jesus was born in a time where Pharisees were hypocrites. The pharoah? He is the same case as Mao and Stalin and frankly even a idiot could see that has nothing to do with religion.

quote: Hence presently, the countries that ignored religion, are progressing in the right direction. Canada/US/Australia/ whilst Russia has gone backwards as they found a new fondness for Orthodox brand of christianity. China and most chinese have abandoned any form of religion an look at their growth rates.>>

LMFAO, thanks for making my day. USA is practically a theocratic Christian nation and guess who elected George W Bush in the last election? The Bible spouting majority. The same bunch that have faith in the Bible that says Thou shalt not kill and turn the other cheek yet they elected a president who is responsible for hundreds of thousands deaths of Iraqi people. Australia is progressing slowly towards U.S direction. To make your answer more convincing, why not add New Zealand and Turkey to your list?

Even if people abandon the religions you so despise, mankind will always create another form of religion, as illustrated by Mao and Stalin. Mankind cannot survive without at least some form of idol for them to worship, so don't spout to me nonsense that countries can progress better without religion.

If god is all powerful, all seeing, all commanding, would something has existed if he dont permit it?

Would it be that we are worshipping the same god in different name, introduced by different prophet?

Does he wants you to convert the world over? Does he specifically wants you to convert using sword? pistols? Nuclear bombs? or enlightening words and wisdom?

Why not just introduce one religion to rule them all?

If he dont allow anything, would they be in existence? Does he created the whole of humanity? animal kingdom? living being? the universe?

Who created him? {This question: if he doesnt allow me to think of this, would i be able to have that tiny spark of idea at all?} So who created him?

Does he created someone to fight another guy becoz of some guy dont agree with what the other guy believe?

Does he allow you to look down on other religion based on your "interpretation"? Who are you to dictate your religious perspective towards others?

For buddhism, Everything is impermenance (nothing last, not even the universe or god) Everything are inter-connected in the universe and was born from the same source(cause and effect) (air you breath out yesterday, will be breath in by some new yorker 1 month later, whatever I shit, you may have tasted it through the fruit i sell in the market).

The aim is to get enlightened in your lifetime and be free from worry and suffering like "should I greet my indian fren?"

Lest you be at peace with yourself and "everything" in and outside the universe, you will not be able to return to the source/god/(fill in the blank).

I guess I leave it at that. Religion and philosophy, they are so confusing. At least god almighty gifted us a mind to reason.

sydput

You said........ rosman, an executive in a foreign owned bank, whose living is paid for by sucking the blood of borrowers in terms of interest payment.

So this "rosman" is a banker in a foreign bank??

He must also be touching and counting money from China, Thailand, Hongkong, and Philippines, where pork, cooked and uncooked is handled as freely as the money there.

I hope he is wearing gloves to go to work, otherwise he might be not only religiously get contaminated but physically contaminated.

It can't be any worse than his fear and his own religious disgut of wishing someone else Happy Diwali, or someone wishing his Selamat Hari Raya.

In fact, it is worse than drinking from the same glass of water of a non Muslim or eating from a plate of a non Muslim home.

Anyway, fortunately, gloves are cheap and there are disposal gloves "rosman" chap and the Ustaz Mohd Fauzi can buy in Malaysia's supermarkets.

Mishugina says - Even if people abandon the religions you so despise, mankind will always create another form of religion, as illustrated by Mao and Stalin. Mankind cannot survive without at least some form of idol for them to worship.
I said - You said it bro! Moses confronted pharoah and his followers to reject religion and idol worship and embrace God. The twelve disciples during Jesus times were from the jewish religion. But jesus told them to embrace God by living a righteous life.Mohamed was against idol worship and informed the stone worshipping pagan arabs to abandon religion and embrace God's way of life.I am not sure if either of them succeeded.
Buddha did not preach religion. But his images are worshipped evrywhere.
Chinse built temples to honour Confucious. But he did not preach religion.
God gives sustenance, but does not require any sustenance from us in the form of worship or offerings.The scriptures offer guidelines on how mankind should live. No mention on worship rituals. Transgress the guidelines and you will be punished in the next life.If the guidelines are followed, you will achieve a blissful life in this world and the next.
At the end of the day, how you live in this world will be accounted for in the next life.
The US response to provocation has been the same since the times of the pioneers who had to face the native Red Indians. Anhilate a whole tribe as an example to others what they face if they dare to attack. In the case of 9/11, it was Iraq, since the perpetrators were of arab origin. Hence the two nuclear bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki for the japanese for daring to attack Pearl Harbour.The amount of time the Christian Right in the US spent to worship of God is insignificant compared to the Shiites in Iran. Hence the reason why the west s more advance is simply due to the fact that they dedicate more time for useful work.
You do not need religion to believe in God.

sydput

Great response on religion.

People like rosman and Ustaz Mohd Fauzi could have lived a better life and would have related better with people from other religions if they could go about believing in God without having to follow their version of Islam, judging from the way they use Islam to discriminate others.

Following what you sais, Muslims like rosman or this Mohd Fauzi can spend more time doing USEFUL WORK. And rosman can have less guilt getting his salaries from the Bank he is now working collected from the interests of borrowers, when Islam forbids profiteering from interests of others. How come he did not work for the Islamic Bank?

rosman

Why don't you discuss the following article with your mentor, Ustaz Mohd Fauzi? We really need his and your views on it.

Think about. And don't forget to where gloves when you go to work, if you need to handle our Malaysian Ringgit and coins.

According to RPK in his article below, he said,

.... "According to Dr Mahathir, 80% of the income tax comes from the Chinese. This can only mean two things. Either the Malays run away from paying income tax, or the wealth of this nation is mostly owned by the Chinese and that is why they pay 80% of the income tax. Anyway, 97% of Malaysia's civil servants of almost one million -- which includes the police and security forces – are Malays, meaning Muslims.

Can you imagine 97% of one million people – that is Malays -- earning a salary from the government which gets 80% of its income tax from non-Muslim Chinese?

How do the Chinese earn their profits for which they pay tax? Other than the normal manufacturing, trading, property development, etc, the Chinese run lotteries, slot machines, hotels, massage parlours, Karaoke lounges, bars, pubs, discos, money lending companies, etc.

In short, the Chinese are involved in every un-Islamic business activity you can think of."

You and Ustaz Mohd Fauzi are handling money mostly passing through the hands of non Muslims, who either eat or handle pork almost everyday, and they generate over 80 % revenue for the country through non Islamic ways.

You should have a non Muslim friend to handle your money or keep your wallet. Or just keep credit cards.But non Muslims will still touch your credit cards.

----

in Malaysia Today

Tuesday, October 10, 2006

Halal and haram

by

Raja Petra Kamarudin

Dear son,

I am glad you have finally decided on a career change. A chef is certainly a better profession than the one now. No doubt a security guard's pay may be good…..well, that is equivalent to RM50 an hour which is what most people earn in a day in Malaysia.....but that would be more or less what will you earn for the rest of your life unless you make supervisor or something like that. Sure, you can bring in more than RM10,000 a month, but don't you find after more than four years that that job has become rather stale?

After all, we did not send you to the UK just to work. We wanted you to obtain an education as well. At least in the event you wish to come back to Malaysia you would be armed with a piece of paper that could help get you settled down quite comfortably. Some chefs in Malaysia earn more money than the F&B manager, so you are certainly on the right track here.

Okay, now to your question of pork. Of course you are going to face the dilemma of having to cook pork, especially in the UK. I really don't know what to advice you though. Muslims are of course forbidden from eating pork.

But you are only forbidden from eating it. I do not know if this means you cannot cook it or serve it as well. As you suggested, you can always wear gloves and not come into direct contact with the meat. And if you accidentally come into contact with the meat you can always *samak *(clean) yourself. Alright, on the issue of *samak *that you raised, I suggest you ask the Imam or one of the more knowledgeable chaps at the Islam Centre in Manchester. No doubt, *samak *in the traditional or 'old' sense means cleaning with sand. You see, sand has a purifying affect and that is why water filters use sand to clean dirty water.

But today there are many other and modern cleansing agents that do the job better. Take Vim as one example.
It is very coarse, like sand, and it can clean even black pots, pans and kettles and they become like new again. Can cleaning with Vim be regarded as *samak *or must you actually use real sand? I am sure Manchester's Islam Centre can shed some light on this matter.

Nevertheless, if you are careful and not too clumsy, you can actually cook pork without touching it. I am not sure about the fumes though and whether this will stick to your clothes and body. But let us assume you do not come into any contact whatsoever with the meat, then I suspect there is no harm in you cooking it. As I said, you just can't eat it, that's all. I mean, even in Saudi Arabia they sell Hush Puppies and these are made from pigskin.

But the skin is cleaned when it is processed into leather, so it is considered already *samak *and therefore is regarded as clean. Now, liquor is another thing altogether. Not only are you not supposed to drink liquor, but you are not supposed to serve, keep, profit from, or handle
liquor in any way. In short, you must have absolutely no dealings with liquor, not only must you not drink it.

Okay, on the point you raised about the MAS stewards and stewardesses. No doubt they serve liquor onboard the MAS flights and the Muslim stewards and stewardesses serve you. But this does not make it okay. Even though they might not drink the liquor, the fact that they serve it is as bad as they are drinking it. And the haram act is not confined to just the stewards and stewardesses. The pilots are also accomplices. So are the Directors of the company. The shareholders are also earning haram income. And if ASB or Tabung Haji also own shares in MAS then those who invest in ASB and Tabung Haji are also earning haram income. This is very clear and there is no compromise on the issue. So steer clear of liquor at all costs even if you have to take a lesser salary at a liquor-free establishment. But is this possible in the UK? I suppose if in Muslim-owned establishments like the Pernas hotels and MAS they are not too concerned about liquor, you may have to also overlook this issue.

If not, where in heaven's name are you going to work as a chef in the UK if you insist on a liquor-free establishment? And when you come back to Malaysia and work as a chef in a five-star hotel, even those owned by the government, you cannot avoid liquor.

On the matter of wishing your friends there 'Merry Christmas', I would not worry so much about that if I were you.

Actually the jury is still out on this one. No doubt some people have come out with *fatwah*(decrees) that we are not supposed to wish our non-Muslim friends a happy anything. I really don't know. Maybe, as they say, it is wrong because then we would be considered aping or following the non-Muslims, so that would therefore make us non-Muslim as well. But there are so many other things non-Muslims do which we follow, so would this not make us non-Muslims as well?

I mean, just look at the financial and monetary system. We use paper money and float bonds, promissory notes, letters of credit and so on. All these are creations of the non-Muslims. Yet we use these instruments in our daily life. If we are really concerned about being 'proper' Muslims and about not aping the non-Muslims, then we should revert to gold coins instead of paper money. In fact, paper money is only a promise to pay. And paper money is a big risk, a gamble, as it fluctuates in value. Islam would certainly not endorse this but name me one Muslim country that does not indulge in it. And what about the practice of putting paper money in Ang Pows every Hari Raya?

Is this not a non-Muslim custom as well which we now follow? As I said, if we are really concerned about being proper Muslims, then this practice of Hari Raya Ang Pows should be stopped.

According to Dr Mahathir, 80% of the income tax comes from the Chinese. This can only mean two things. Either the Malays run away from paying income tax, or the wealth of this nation is mostly owned by the Chinese and that is why they pay 80% of the income tax. Anyway, 97% of Malaysia's civil servants of almost one million -- which includes the police and security forces – are Malays, meaning Muslims.

Can you imagine 97% of one million people – that is Malays -- earning a salary from the government which gets 80% of its income tax from non-Muslim Chinese?

How do the Chinese earn their profits for which they pay tax? Other than the normal manufacturing, trading, property development, etc, the Chinese run lotteries, slot machines, hotels, massage parlours, Karaoke lounges, bars, pubs, discos, money lending companies, etc.

In short, the Chinese are involved in every un-Islamic business activity you can think of.

But this does not mean that these are illegal businesses because most times they have licences for these businesses. Nevertheless, they are un-Islamic business activities and they pay licence fees to the government which again goes into the kitty. Then this tax from this un-Islamic income is used to pay the salaries of the one million civil servants, 97% of whom are Muslims.

So I would not worry about wishing your friends in Manchester " Merry Christmas".

After all, it is more culture than religion and Jesus is also a prophet of the Muslims as much as of the Christians. To me, wishing someone "Merry Christmas", if it is really a sin, is still a smaller sin than some of those others I have mentioned above. Anyway, how can we accept the word of a Mufti or Imam who works for the government and derives his salary from income tax where 80% comes from non-Muslims and who many are involved in businesses that go against Islamic teachings? I mean, would you listen to a Mufti who earns his salary from taxes that comes from Chinese who run brothels disguised as massage parlours and legally licensed by the government to do so?