Screenshots

Today TV3 has some reports. TDM is asked to resigned from some posts he held as advisor. War begin? Why only after Ramadan? aiyo...

Oh. Remember AVP (Alien Vs Predictor). There was a saying, "whoever win, we lose". We, as in Rakyat...

Does anyone know if Datuk Seri Najib has ever responded to criticisms of his keris bathing threat?

Folks

This is nothing new for those who were old enough to remember the TPCA rally in 1987 with Najib's famous "keris in CHINESE BLOOD".

A racist statement like that in UMNO politics sounds patriotic, and that is why he is now the DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER.

His position as Deputy Prime Minister is at the pleasure of UMNO, despite his public ANTI-CHINESE sentiments, not at the interest of the population as a whole.

UMNO runs Malaysia NOT Barisan National. The rest of the component parties are warming the seats, forming the crowd and with NO voice, no marbles and with NO mandate.

Should Malaysia has a election of Prime Minister, NAJIB will be the last to be on the ballot box.

Whether he still harbours anti-Chinese sentiments as he did in 1987 is something we stil do not know.

But UMNO politics had always be racial and community-divisiveness.

As they are doing now in the US, the TIME FOR CHANGE and to give another Malay-based party to take over UMNO as the dominant party should be timely.

Behind Najib are other potential racist-bent UMNO members, not forgetting that keris-wielding UMNO Youth Leader and the Son In Law.

See this is what I have a problem with.

Najib's action was very uncalled for.

Badruddin Amir's as well.

But as for Hishamuddin and Khairy, you may disagree with what they did and condemn their playing of the race card but don't brand them as racists.

Find out what racism is before you brandish a heavy accusation like that.

Because by your logic, TDM was a Nazi.

Vedderina

If a person plays a race card is not a racist, then what the hell you call him?

Community Facilitators??

Don't split hairs.

You call him a pragmastist, a politician, a populist. Remember Khairy once said that he lamented the fact that Malays had to depend on the NEP. Does that imply that he was against the NEP? Maybe we can also call him a traitor to the Malays then?

Like I said, go check what racism means.

It serves your belief to brand UMNO as racists; I'm merely trying to gently remind you that it's a big accusation to throw at someone.

Why dont u tell me what Khairy has said or done? Tell me exactly how he played the race card. Then we can see if that is tantamount to racism.

JEFF OOI says: Don't hijack the context of my blog topic. We are explicitly dissecting the historicalcontext that led up to OpsLalang 19 years ago. Why don't you,instead, tell us how much you know about the White Paper that explains OpsLalang? Stayt on course!

Vedderian

Unfortunately you are living outside Malaysia.

When someone wants his keris to be in Chinese blood, you call that "pragmatist" and "populist"

You define what is racist?if not aperson playing a race card.

I can throw back to you all the definitions racism you want.

It looks like you are an apologist for those racists hiding behind UMNO's chauvinistic leanings.

UMNO, MCA and MIC are race-based political parties. It is one thing to fight the rights of one own race, I have no problem with that. But to denigrate, to intimidate other races with "blood on the keris", with reminders of May 13, with creating fear in other races just because you happen to hold the powers of the military, the Government instruments, that is leaning towards racist sentiments... and I would call that racist in attitude, if not in behaviour.

UMNO plays the race card once too often. UMNO is no ordinary political party. It is the dominant political party holding the reigns of government.

Vedderian

Here is the definition of racism.

You can look it up yourself to confirm it.

rac‧ism  /ˈreɪsɪzəm/ –noun

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.

3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Take above definition, and put the word "UMNO" against it. It is almost synonymous.

Or put that definition to what Khairy had been mouthing in the press over
the issue about Chinese education last year;
put that definition to what Hishammuddion mouthing with his keris in his hands at the UMNO General Assembly;
and put that definition to what Najib said in 1987 at the TPCA stadium.

Of course I am not excluding those racists hiding in MCA and MIC too.

Now YOU give us YOUR definition of racism.

Vedderian,

to Frank & Honest's question, you answered "You call him a pragmastist, a politician, a populist"

I call him that AND a racist as well. Why exclude it?

Had our politicians do not play the race cards, whether they are from Umno, MCA or MIC etc, they would have been nowhere compared to politicians in other countries.Asking them to work hard for the voters and asking them to use their brains would have been futile and they probably would have lost their deposits in any election. Get the drift? Have you ever met a politician on a bus, LRT to work, driving a Kancil or Waja, or stay in a flat?You and I will make a better politician than them if meritocracy is in play.

Hey guys, when you call someone else racist, that reflect you a racist too. Unless we all stop calling each other racist, we are forever remain in the era of May13.

Yes, it is an unforgetable and regretable incident. But we don't glorify the past as it is unchangeable. We glorify the future that we all shall make it work together. Let's have a United Malaysian and find ways to work this out.

JEFF OOI says: You have my vote. We should work for Anak Malaysia's Malaysia..

I do not see how calling a racist, racist makes one a racist. We remember the past so that we know the next step to avoid the same mistake again. That's what real history all about and I'm not talking about the "modified version" which we studied all these while.

Sometimes, it's really stupid to get yourself wounded when you try to hurt somebody. The chinese say it 害人害己.

patriotic1994

I admire your idealism. Unfortunately there are those of earlier generations than you who had the same idealism. And till today idealism became frustrations. The only way to address the racist tendencies of politicians in the country is to say it upfront. Not to deny it but to call a spade a spade.

UMNO had been preventing with ISA intimidation other communities from speaking up against the racist policies it entrenched in Govt economic and educational policies.

How can a citizen with some decency should not speak it out.

Dictators and cruel politics exist because we self-censor and allowed others to rule against the common good of the country.

You are suggesting we pretend racism does not exist in the country and we pretend "semua ok".

Why is Mahathir speaking out now? Because he is now facing the short end of the stick.

I say, those of us who had been facing the short end of the stick of UMNO should have sufficient courage to also speak out, within the boundaries of the law of the land.

For you my friend, I let you to Dream on with your idealism.

First you (F&H) need to get over the fact that I live outside Malaysia. I've lived there for 19 years and I left for Manchester last year and I've been back earlier this year for summer. And again in June.

So I dont see where you think you're getting at with your constant "oh but you dont live in Malaysia" attitude.

Based on the definitions you put up:

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

The differences in achievement is because of race. Therefore, Hitler was a Nazi because he believed that the Jews were inherently, genetically evil.

If I think that many Black people in America and Britain are poor compared to whites because they're black, and not because of any historical or cultural reasons, then I am a racist.

The definition also involves thinking that you are a superior race, in that being born with a particular skin colour makes you a better/more advanced/more civilised person, and therefore that justifies you ruling other races. Colonialists from Europe had this.

Ask yourself, is this really synonymous with UMNO as a whole? When Hishamuddin brandished the keris was he being a racist, or was he merely trying to be ultra and win votes? Did he genuinely believe that his race was superior than others? WHat is UMNO? Is it a party defending Malay rights, or a party who believes that Malay is INHERENTLY better than Chinese. It could be both, but do u really believe in the second?

2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.

Yes. I agree with u on this one. One could argue that the affirmative action policy today is immoral and racist. But it wasnt so during Tun Razak's time after 1969. So u see even here what one might call racism in one context wouldn't be racism in another.

3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races
You would have to be extremely prejudiced against UMNO to think that they hate or cannot tolerate Chinese and Indians. You could make extreme interpretations of UMNO in order to fit it with this definition of course, but I personally wouldnt buy it.

I dont defend UMNO from everything. My only concern here is that its become very popular to bash UMNO, bash Khairy, bash Hishamuddin. Im worried that people wont think for themselves anymore. Its good to criticise your government, but calling them racists as though its plain as day isnt helping.

I am frustrated by many of these individuals actions. But I do believe that their primary concern is to win votes, and they may use many sellout methods to get those votes.

Do u honestly believe Najib hates Chinese? When he threatened to bathe the keris in Chinese blood, do u think he really was going to do that? Or was he garnering support?

If u wanna accuse them of something, accuse them of being populist.

All Im asking here is for valid critique. This blog has become a government bashing UMNO bashing arena. And fair enough where its merited. But wild, sensational accusations wont make us any more mature. If anything, these guys ure criticising are arguably doing similar things. Wild and sensational.

JEFF OOI says: Don't hijack the context of my blog topic. We are explicitly dissecting the historicalcontext that led up to OpsLalang 19 years ago. Why don't you,instead, tell us how much you know about the White Paper that explains OpsLalang? Stayt on course and let this be the last warning to all.!

Let me add to F&H's rebuttals.

Unlike Umno, there has been no Chinese or Indian political leader who has said anything so irresponsible and racial as what Najib, for that matter, Khair and the others, had said. And we haven't added what the late Razali, bil of Mahathir and polsec of Harun, had done on that fateful day.

If that doesn't spell things out, what does?

The reactions of Umno to anything that the other component parties, let alone the opposition parties, have asked for, have been to raise their race card predicated on their special rights, including the one to treat non-malay citizens as pendatang in all but name.

Let them come out and say it isn't so. Let them come out to admit that hidden within the inner circle of Umno there's a hidden agenda to coerce non-malays, especially the Chinese intelligentsia, to leave.

You have seen them try to placate weakly each time these questions are raised, but those are just poliical mumbojumbo - and they've never followed up with any concrete action to show true contrition and a real appreciation of the other citizens of this country.

There is one more danger - if the extremist elements within Umno continue to think they can use nationalism and the idea of a malaysian card to push forward their malay agenda, it will tear this country apart; the newer generations of Umno are turks, some with statements bothering on thugs. Even at this late stage in the evolution of Malaysia they are still hankering for assimilation and a pan-melayu archipelago using methods as shifty and cunning as those of indo extremists.

If this is wrong, they are challenged to come out and reverse those policies that are blighting the other communities. If this is wrong, let people like Najib and Khairy come out and say they're more than sorry, they apologise, and let them take action beyond washing away discomfort, let them take action to help the other citizens as brothers and equal holders of the future of Malaysia. Realists will tell you they would rather fall on their own kerises.

And that is because if they see they can get away with it, they will do so. There's still some dough left that hasn't been korekked by their predecessors.

Let me fire two questions, what is it that Umno can do that a new malay political party cannot? What exactly have been delivered that's so great?

"Behind Najib are other potential racist-bent UMNO members, not forgetting that keris-wielding UMNO Youth Leader and the Son In Law".

Ah, we should not forget to mention the Jerai MP's name, Amiruddin Bin Baharuddin. This is another racist who has said that if the Chinese are not happy, they can go back to China!

"Thus far, we have not seen any efforts during this Abdullah administration to abolish the ISA (read: Imprisonment without trial) and the Printing Presses and Publications Act, to name a few of those draconian laws. They are expected to be readily invoked should convenience suffice -- mark my word for that".

Amiruddin, KJ, Hishamuddin?...the ISA it is for oppositions only?

Oops, how could I have missed out Najib's name!

"Let's have a United Malaysian and find ways to work this out".

That is what many of us want? 30 years later and it is getting worse. Slow and steady, the rights of others are eroding and history changed to suit UMNO. And, I don't think it is the effect of global warming. Looks like the only way is via the ballot box. Stand and be counted.

"Let's have a United Malaysian and find ways to work this out".

That is what many of us want. 30 years later and it is getting worse. Slow and steady, the rights of others are eroding and history changed to suit UMNO. And, I don't think it is the effect of global warming. Looks like the only way is via the ballot box. Stand and be counted.

"Let me fire two questions, what is it that Umno can do that a new malay political party cannot? What exactly have been delivered that's so great?"

The fact is, the only viable alternative to UMNO at present is PAS. Only it has the political clout to stand toe to toe with UMNO. Most non Malays are less keen on PAS than UMNO. Whats so hard about creating a new party? The fact is, UMNO is entrenched in the Malay psyche, to some extent, it has supplanted loyalty to the Rulers to loyalty to UMNO.

UMNO has the potential to do much good, the problem is that the populists keep on winning votes because they fit a certain mold.

Hi Jeff

My family feels very fed up, so I feel very tired to write. In my current emotional state, I might write something fiery, stupid, seditious, provocative, and get whacked by the Whip.

I’m glad you raised this Ops Lalang issue. It will be a test on whether TODAY our people have grown up, and are mature and objective; a test to see if they can debate without using fiery, stupid, seditious and provocative words; a test to see if they can speak and write with self-restraint and self-respect.

I watched TV3 last night and wish to praise the Sultan of Selangor for giving Port Klang state assemblyman Zakaria Md Deros a royal reprimand. According to the statement read by the Sultan’s private secretary, the Sultan called Zakaria arrongant and rude, and was a disgrace to the Malays.

Before the royal reprimand, Zakaria’s henchmen have blamed the press for hounding Zakaria and hurting his image. They considered him an example of a Towering Malay, and other Malays should rally around him to protect the dignity of the Malays.

I am very proud of the Sultan of Selangor. I have this desire to seek an audience with His Highness, kiss his hand and thank him for protecting the dignity of Malaysians, irrespective of race or religion.

I hope His Highness will haul up other Umnoputras, Cinaputras and others who have broken the law, who have behaved like gangsters, and who have tarnished the image of the rakyat.

"I watched TV3 last night and wish to praise the Sultan of Selangor for giving Port Klang state assemblyman Zakaria Md Deros a royal reprimand. According to the statement read by the Sultan’s private secretary, the Sultan called Zakaria arrongant and rude, and was a disgrace to the Malays".

Yes, I am all respect for the Sultan as well as I feel he came in at the right time when other politicians such as AAB and Khir Toyo are dragging their feet to take action. Sad thing is for a person like Zakaria who knows the law and breaks it, I feel his Datukship should also be taken away from him since he is a bad example to the populace. I also cannot understand why his house is also not demolish like others would have been when he did not have approved building plans, not to mention he has not paid assessment to his other properties as well. No body is above the law or does it applies only to the ordinary man-in-the-streets. Leadership by example?

To have a better future, we need to constantly be reminded of our past. Thats why in the US, the issue of slavery is still something people talk about.

F&H, without dream there will not be a goal. I dream of a perfect world. But nothing is perfect. So I am prepared to overcome all defects.

I don't remember faults. I forgive. No point to revenge and dig out other people's guilt. Everybody has their pride. Nobody like to be labeled as bad guy forever. Many times we actually make mistake due to our ignorance and inexperience. But the fact is, we are growing up.

We cannot stop at one point and replay that moment again and again with different improvement everytime it looped. It does not help us progressing. Find the problem and fix it so that it does not happen again. We can then moving forward.

Ops Lalang is history. What had we learned? How can we effectively avoid this from happening again? Spend some times to think of this is better than labeling someone racist.

"Ops Lalang is history. What had we learned? How can we effectively avoid this from happening again? Spend some times to think of this is better than labeling someone racist."

I think both F&H and I can agree that this takes precedence over what we argued about.
Well said.

Jigsawpuzzle, we can remind ourselves about our past. It is a memory, afterall. But you can't make any different or change the history anymore. Therefore we must start to make the change for tomorrow, starting today.

And remember the rule of change. Don't create regretable changes. It will become a bad memory to everyone. Remember, Internet records EVERYTHING.

I forget but during this time in 1987 wasn't Nazri as well a one other guy alos very provocative in their speeches and these too were quoted in the papers. That other guy was about the only UMNO Youth guy who got picked up during the Operation Lalang. Mahathir spared both Najib and Nazri then. ...This is what I faitly remember....maybe someone can confirm.

it seems malaysia politics are immature even after 49 years of independence ...

there're basically 2 components within the existing govn (i can't say others as this is the only govn since independence) ... first being using racial cards to climb the ladder ... second being using ISA to comb-out the political opponents when the threats are getting stronger ...

almost all prime ministers (exception tunku abdul rahman & hussein onn) know this politic-101 concept and they play by the rules and it pay them off well ...

i can't comment on current pm as he has yet to prove he won't use the same format ... but if he decides to use it, then it'll be no difference between him and former pm mahadey ...

we really need check and balance for prosperity (yin & yang) ...

http://stocktube.blogspot.com

cheers

if at all the racist topic has become so common, you should all thank the hatchet man for popularizing the term when he uttered it umpteenth times in Parliament when he uttered it against another MP for raising the issue of medical students studying at a medical facility which is about to be derecognized by the government of the day

it is no longer important to call it racist / ultralist / populist for whatever it is worth because I am sure by now most people would have forgotten about the plight of those medical students's future ...

Likewise, Malaysians in general suffered from the mudah lupa syndrome ...

So coming back to Jeff's topic, perhaps if NST's tagline may harm Najib badly, it would also kill two birds with one stone in the process as well ...

If it is a politically calculated move, this will also harm Hishamuddin Hussein as well since he and Najib is calculated to be a political rival of the POPULIST/OPPORTUNIST/RACIST/ULTRALIST son-in-law

Calling any of them the above terms doesn't detract from their SUBSTANCE ...

I plead for F&H and vedderian to look beyond the form of the words being used ... look at the substance ... I can say it is pretty nasty and *venomous*

I guess it's pretty simple. As long as we still have UMNO & the sidekicks aka MCA, MIC...etc. around as the government, this is the way politics will be play in Malaysia. It's all about the RACE & RELIGION stupid! If we get sick of this & want to change, then have the guts to vote for the opposition.

Err, sorry for hijacking Jeff's blog here, but I need to ask: Anyone else having problem accessing Wikipedia? Firefox keeps returning the "Problem loading page" error everytime.

patriotic1994

You said.... Ops Lalang is history. What had we learned? How can we effectively avoid this from happening again?

On this point. I agree with you 100 %.

We ALL have a responsiblity to learnt he lessons. Not only should WE learn, WE too have to have the courage to speak out so that OTHERS,olike those irresponsible hot-headed UMNO Youth leaders who are now in power in the country, like Najib who had instigated the crisis, and those in MCA, that led to Ops Lallang, and newbees of the like of the Son In Law, ALSO learnt the lessons. One way is to not only say but to demonstrate clearly: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.. and that they must also know there are consequences that they will bear, for their dangerous irresponsibility.

Keeping quiet and only for US (ordinary and helpless citizens) to have this idealism and dream will NOT solve the problem of the dangerous politics of these racist politicians on both sides of the political spectrum.

I have spoken up, irrespective whether these politicians are from MCA, MIC and UMNO or even PAS, if their moral judgement actions are in question. That is democracy and the rights of freedom-loving citizens of modern Malaysia, not the feudalistic version which UMNO is trying entrench in Malaysia.

alfabob

You said.... Most non Malays are less keen on PAS than UMNO. Whats so hard about creating a new party?

Forget about forming a new party especially a new Malay political party. It will take 25 years for that kind of party to have any impact in Malaysian politics.

Whatever new party to be formed or to win Govt, it must win the Malay heartland, especially the rural folks.

If you read Malaysian political history, many came and gone. Dato Jaffar Onn tried one, it failed. Tengku Razaleigh formed his Semangat 46, it failed. The Partai Rakyat Sosialis Malaysia is still in the periphery of Malaysian politics after being existence for just as long as UMNO,

Gerakan was meant to be a multiracial party, but landed as a party of half-clever Chinese intellectual elite, not for lack of idealism, but the country was not ready for that kind of politics given UMNO's race-based policy predominance since 1957.

Keadilan?? It began as a cult-party around Anwar Ibrahim when he was ostracised by UMNO.

Its survival as a sustainable political party is very questionable. It has many long yards to go before it is relevant to Malaysian politics. It is still finding its core-base.

The only viable option is PAS. It has ruled Kelantan and only joined BN for ten years before it decided to walk out of the BN.

PAS almost win the Federak Govt about several elections ago,if not for the Chinese votes, which UMNO instilled into the Chinese and parroted by MCA and Gerakan, saying that non Malays will be FORCED to wear the tudung and become Muslims, and pork will be banned in Malaysia etc. Just ask the Kelantanese Chinese whether they were any worse than their counterparts in West Coast? Of course liquor is not freely sold. But the respect of other religions in PAS is guided by their religious beliefs and NOT by the personal interpretations of Islam by those self-serving UMNO politicians.

BTW, there were non Muslim Kelantanese Chinese who voted for PAS, and they don't have to be PAS members. That is one reason where the Chinese-dominated constituency in Kota Bharu was won by a Chinese Muslim (who sat in the PAS Exco) against a MCA Chinese.

I am not saying which party you should vote for.I am puttin out the odds of forming a new party and to have a new party to lead Govt, instead being mired in the Opposition.

But look at the odds, if change is needed.

F&H I agree with you to speak up. I didn't care about what happen to country until this time. I am always patriotic, and still I am today, regardless of what happened. I had been watching and listening for some times. You can be sure that I never voted BN. Whatever on the ballot paper, as long as it is _not_ BN, I will put an X there.

I hope many of you would do the same to put an X to non-BN box.

Meanwhile, be more alert of political issues around. Salute to Jeff and many Opposition leaders, socialists, who are Malaysian and patriotic. You are the one that make us aware of what happened out there. Seek the truth. Don't be childish. I also like RPK in Malaysia-today.net. Very nice information! And that is true Malaysian that we should all create and nurture in the new generation.

Why should TDM critisms lead to another operation lallang? The way I see it, it is only one man against the pack. Even the Oppositions are fairly guiet on the current affair. Contrary to KJ comment, no one took advantage of the current situation. In fact, if the present BN wants an end to the current affair, positive steps must be taken. Abolishing ISA and P3A will be good.

Abang Jeff Bertelur Sebiji,
Awek Kommentar Riuh Sekampung.
Spin NST Patut dikeji,
Kerana kalian ikut tersinggung.

What NST is trying to spin ?

1. Bringing the fears of ISA to threaten the rakyat?
2. Telling that Pak Lah is going to use ISA to shut you up ?
3. Plot to bring down our Mister Smart DPM ?

What NST wanna tell ? NST is playing with fire! He must be stopped.

I was walking outside the Taiping Zoo in December of 1987, telling my mum and saying that: "That's the another good cage to calm the people down and a bloodiest blood shed has thus avoided." Yes. Indeed a very good place for the NST.

BaganSPU

You may be right. There is so much of wayang kulit going on at the moment.

NST 29 Oct 2006 Out of the Cage (Khairy Jamaluddin): The value of remaining silent
FREEDOM, like beauty, is apparently in the eye of the beholder.

Full Story

NST Sunday Column, 29 Oct 2006(Kalimullah Hassan): It’s the time of the year to reflect and think right
Having the family around is the best part of celebrating Hari Raya.

Full Story

ktak

Thanks for the links.

The Son In Law is showing his Islamic credentials.. quoting Imams and the Al Quran.

In summary, the Son In Law is telling or rather pontificating to Tun Mahathir, this:

"Shutup, Old Man, if you have nothing good to say about the country and the Government . You are a disgrace to Islam with your foul-mouth condemning our PM and the media."

A young man trying to intellectualise side-remarks to a seasoned politician of Dr Mahathir's stature.

The Son-In-Law thinks we are fools not being able to read the line and between the lines.

With your permission Jeff, if I can respond shortly to the issue of freedom of expression raised in the preceeding comments,

I think Khairy made fair points. I understand your scepticism of his sincerity, and its your right to do so. He may well have other interests at heart, and it would be fair to be open to that possibility.

Regardless, wouldn u agree that the content of his argument is flawless?

This comment related to NST 29 Oct. article by KJ.

Since he uses Al-Quran Surah Al-Hujurat verse 11, I also like to point out the background of this surah, among others as mentioned below, by Maududi's introduction for this surah.

"...Then, it has been told what attitude should the other Muslims adopt in case two groups of the Muslims fall to mutual fighting.

Then the Muslims have been exhorted to safeguard against the evils that corrupt collective life and spoil mutual relationships. Mocking and taunting each other, calling others by nicknames, creating suspicions, prying into other people's affairs and back biting are the evils which are not only sins in themselves but they also corrupt society. Allah has mentioned all these evils separately and forbidden them as unlawful. ..."

So is it not KJ who called nicknames such as "beruk" towards a fellow muslim? And you FIL call others "Iblis".?

So if he himself is not able to live by this surah, then he should not qoute this surah to attack Tun M.

Lastly Maududi concluded that "True believers are only those who adopt this attitude. As for those who profess Islam merely orally without affirmation by the heart and then adopt an attitude as if they had done someone a favor by accepting Islam, may be counted among the Muslims in the world, may even be treated as Muslims in society, but they cannot be counted as believers in the sight of Allah."

kamil

Thank you for your explanation.

Not many of us are familiar with the relevant suras in the Al-Quran.

Vedderian

A very well and refined painted eggshell with a a rotten inside also looks flawless in all its details.

Speeches and politically motivated arguments are flawless even if the intent is cruel.

Bush's argument to attack Iraq was initially seen as flawless by the majority of Americans.

That's the line of argument most apologists take to justify intent and motives.

Folks

Something tells me after reading the Son In Law's article,that it is either being drafted by Kallimullah Hassan (his crony or cohort) or edited deeply by him. It could have ghost-written for him by someone in UMNO or UMNO Youth with a good command of the English language and polished by Kallimullah Hassan

That easy flowing and homily style . It doesnt' match with the kind of temperament we know of the Son In Law.

It just doesn't match.

F&H,

I think theres a slight misunderstanding here. When I raised the question of creating a new party, it was followed by the answer of how entrenched UMNO is with the Malay community. In other words, I was trying to point out that it is difficult to form a new party.

Maybe PAS is the way to go, PAS nowadays are much more reasonable then the hell and brimstone PAS of the past decade, but there are still prejudices against them, and there is also the difficult business of getting the Opposition to unite themselves and work on the long term. Like it or not, thats the one trump card BN has been able to play year in year out, and not by the Opposition, a united front.

One other point, and pls take this as a clarification and a reminder, the statements made by Najib and the ultras preceding Ops Lallang was a response to statements made by non malay political leaders. I don't know what was said by them, but some of those statements were racially provocative, as mentioned by the Wiki. I would like to know what those statements are too, because throughout the arguments, there has been a lot of emphasis on Najibs statement, and nothing on what was said by the opposing parties, could it not be that similar statements were made as well?

While we seek for balance amongst ourselves, we should also seek balance in our arguments here. I believe sensitive comments were made from both sides of the divide in the events then.

To Alfabob, Pas and Umno is not the way to go. If Pas get elected, democracy is doomed and syariah law will prevail for everyone. Election commission will be closed and government will be administered by enlightended religious scholars. No democracy in syariah laws. Don't forget that. Look at Iran and Saudi.
Moral squads will be evrywhere because every immoral person caught is like getting a point towards heaven. Islam as practised today is all about scoring points. Guys like Rosman loses points for greetings made to non-muslims.
The fundamental messages in the Koran concerning good deeds and lead a righteous life (repeated many times) have been ignored.

On nst's headlines on ops lalang, maybe KJ and mulsim clerics/hindu God have some vendetta against DPM, who may be in their way to the top.
Both these chaps have done business together in avenue assets/Libra deal, now they are sharing columns in sunday times.next, share the wealth of the country??? Who knows!

hi, firstly please let me state that i'm not an expert in ops lalang. i've heard of some people who's been rounded up, but they weren't the keris wielding folks who thirsted for chinese blood. most umno members were freed soon after. the real victims were those who continued to be locked up for 2 years. so unlike jeff, i'm not that grateful that ops lalang happened.

sydput

Have you been to Kelantan which had been governed by PAS for umpteen years?

As the non Muslims in Kelantan.

You have been well-fed by the UMNO and MCA propaganda pushed out by NST and Star.

It is like saying the MIC is behaving like those radical Hindus burning mosques in India and killing Indian Muslims.

Your argument would mean that make sure no Buddhists should be in govt since they might behave like the Sri Lankans killing the Hindus and the Tamils.

I could not believe you can be that parochial and so religiously bogoted in your thinking.

Come out of your shell first.

alfabob

Yes there were dangerous provocations on BOTH side. And both sides take the FULL BLAME.

I agree that the Govt then took a strong stand to prevent another bloody riot.

But here we have someone who was talking about shedding Chinese blood who is now the Deputy PRIME MINISTER today.

He was NOT even detained by ISA for that kind of remark simply because he was the UMNO Youth Leader. That says much about the politics of this country then, and NOW.

That is the point. Has the leopard change its spots now that the reins of power are in his hands.We don't know, do we?

How bizarre... I can't find the above mentioned entry about the Chinese-blood-soaked-keris incident in NTR's entry in Wikipedia. It has been reduced to "In 1987, as UMNO Youth Chief, Najib vociferously defended special Malay priveleges in a fiery speech featuring the Malay Keris (dagger) shortly before the government launched a crackdown on extremist elements termed Operation Lalang."

Edited (cough censored cough) recently? Someone should reinsert it less we "lupa". It is however still on http://www.answers.com/topic/najib-tun-razak

Interestingly, http://ms.wikipedia.org/wiki/Najib_Tun_Razak
has no mention of this incident.

If Nik Aziz were able to live indefinitely, then we can safely assume that Pas are in good hands. But that is not the case in reality. you have Haji Hadi and many other religious zealots in pas as well as umno.
If pas gets majority in parliament, these zealots will crawl out of their nest and starts to demand for their rights.and as far as they are concern, only their rights matters.

The reference is back in the Wikipedia entry. Have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Najib_Tun_Razak&action=history for a history of edits performed on the article.

sydput

you said... If pas gets majority in parliament, these zealots will crawl out of their nest and starts to demand for their rights.and as far as they are concern, only their rights matters.

You are operating on hypotheticals.

You don't make decisions based on hypotheticals and speculations and speculations.

The world does not run on that basis and Malaysians should not put their future on hypotheticals as you suggested.

You might as well say PAS is a bunch of Talibans or every Hindu in Malaysia are like those in India who are bent on burning mosques.

Come on... live in the real world.

Sydput...

Go to Kelantan..live there for a week (should be enough)...visit Kampong Cina..travel the outskirt, talk to the people, go to the market, see how they live..then come back to this post and comment.

sydput,

you miss me?..lol

you dont want pas, you dont like umno, mca, mic or gerakan also you dont like. So at the end you dont votelah....talk only

Any chance Mahathir will make a comeback and took over as leader once again? While Badawi is branded as imcompetent to govern the country. Najib and Hishamudin also raised his keris before so other races will be doomed if one of them become PM. As far as UMNO politician is concern, ISA is the ultimate trump card for them to held on to power. I mean, using the ISA is fine, rather than using keris. Right?

An example, let say DAP is the government now, then they got these keris welding fellow shouting from kampung to kampung, would it be nice if we got ISA?

I personally think we need the ISA, cause I think we got really barbaric people in this country.

Sydput... then what is the way to go? Sometimes we need to think of practicalities and move along with the best option that we have. If there is a viable alternative to UMNO and PAS, I sure would like to know.

F&H,

No we really can't tell whether the leopard has changed his spots or not, ot whether the spots were there in the first place. I'm just trying to point out that the blame then has to be shared by both sides of the divide. That there are printed comments of what has been said by the opposition to Najib does not mean that such comments were not made, just perhaps not recorded.

I don't know about you, or other here for that matter, but UMNO Youth.. and its chieftain and their antics can sure be a major source of embarrassment, at least to me. But somehow, UMNO Youth has always been the radical wing of UMNO... and their leaders are expected to act in such a way. Sad really....

alfabob

You said...its chieftain and their antics can sure be a major source of embarrassment...Youth has always been the radical wing of UMNO

That is an understatement.

UMNO Youth is the national headkicker for UMNO.

The UMNO Youth chieftains are a disgrace... embarrassment is too kind a word.

You should trace back the history of UMNO Youth's headkicking antics at other races and the racially divisive comments in the media.

The UMNO Youth leaders and their leader-wannabees are so arrogant and intransigent that they make those Zionist Israelis/Jews in US and in the Middle East look tame,docile and friendly.

Ask those old enough who had followed the history of the performance of UMNO Youth in public over the last 35 years and you wouldn't want even to know they exist for that matter.

UMNO Youth is THE problem in the racial/communal divisiveness in the country. Others are just reacting to their dangerous antics.