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"Blair is a great leader UK rarely had" ... come on, Jeff, you can't be serious?

He is smooth and devious. Maggie Thatcher is a better leader having rescued the UK from the brink of disaster. Remember the "Winter of Discontent"? And then dismantly the unions and making UK competitive.

Churchill was good - only during the WWII. Nye Bevan was great for helping to establish the welfare state (and NHS) which was greatly needed after WWII. Going further back - Gladstone was great PM.

Blair? The Bush-puppet? Who is responsible for the disastrous war in Iraq. An ideological bankrupt Labourite.

He can't be mentioned in the same breathe as the those illustrious names.

Cheers

JEFF OOI says: I have been going back and forth to England and talked to media and industry people over there who study Blair up-close and personal. They said, Blair seemed to be doing magnificient job pulling up UK from the economic lethargy experienced during Tory's rule. I must be fair to Blair on his domestic governance, and my disagreement with his foreign policy shouldn't be a consequence to his being a great leader in my view. The matter that matters most is he has done much good to his primary customers -- his country and his countrymen. In fact, London Metro is so well run nowadays, and quality tertiary education is still thriving in the country. It trains leaders of the future -- not only for England, but for the world over. But I am not the one who should decide Blair's place in history.

BTW, missing the trees for the bush again? Did you not give a thought to the context of my blog entry? It's related to a pantun which I fore-shadowed in the headline.

I have always been a fan of B's speeches. However it went downhill with his WMD thingy. However, he managed to convincingly say about it!

I disagree with pengembara.
Yes, he has been an agent for the US. But one should not ignore the special rship that has always existed between the 2 countries. In some ways Blair was put in an impossible position.
The national interests Britain stood to gain by allying itself to the sole superpowerfar outweighed any other concerns. And to be sure, Blair never really had any foresight into how disastrous the Iraq war's aftermath would become. All the scandals, all the faulty intelligence, etc etc. And he has kinda apologised since, as diplomatically and politically possible.

Domestically, Blair was the catalyst of New Labour. And being a person of the centre-left, I admire his success in bringing Labour into relevance after all the years under the Torys.

He is as intelligent as they come.

I can list down his successes domestically but Im sure you can find out for yourself.

Dont get me wrong, i disagree with his policies; but in the realm of international relations there is a very small room for personal moral convictions sometimes. Perhaps, at least. Its a tricky thing this politics business. Its easy for us to judge from the outside but we should put ourselves in their shoes sometimes.

He's a great politician and a great leader for the British people. He debates impeccably well and drives his points across like the articulate English gentleman that he is.

Well done, Blair. I may not choose to be a friend of yours because of what u did to the people of Iraq, but I have immense respect for you.

Hi Jeff, I must say i like this, putting Tony Blair together with our Pantun!

Like many, I don't think I agree with Tony Blair's policies all the time , especially his foreign policy, but I cant help respect him as a reformer who pioneered the revolusinery Third Path. And, of course his " ever eloquent and elegant in his Queen's English" is indeed a music to the ears, if we care to compare his skill with our local political leaders!

Keep up the good works, Jeff!

Biar kita berpantun-pantun and not bertengakr-tengkar.

Blair is an excellent leader IMHO. His speeches are eloquent, and if only you see how he answers questions from MPs in House of Parliament.

True, there are so many problems left to be solved after his term ends, ESPECIALLY NHS, but the Labour Party has progressed so much under his leadership that it is hard for the Conservative Party to challenge them anyway.

My Brit friend mentioned that Blair tries too hard to leave his mark and legacy, thus the move on Iraq invasion. Perhaps thats the obvious blot in his remarkable career.

In the eyes of a highly critical and free country(freedom of speech is never restrained there), he has managed 4 successful terms there. Do you think our bloated cabinet can stand a chance there? Surely the Father and SIL had been impeached long time ago.

His future successor, Gordon Brown, has a real tough act to follow.

Tony Blair is someone whom I put into the same category as Dr M.

Both are absolutely magnetic personalities nad magnificent orators. Though Blair speaks in impeccable Queen's English while Dr M uses Bahasa Malaysia sprinkled with colloquial phrases and even resorts to English no and then, both can really mesmerize an audience. Really sway your mind and heart, and convince you that they are speaking the absolute truth IF you are not careful to be on your guard.

I find them a delight to listen to - in my case, especially Blair because I treat his speeches as oppotunities to hear someone who has a good command of English.

But in terms of truth, and in terms of danger of propaganda being subtly injected into my mind, that's a totally different matter.

Indeed, that's where folks like the "budak tak kering hingus" are not so great a threat. Their tricks and willy ways are much easier to see through.

Rosevelt-Churchill, Reagan-Thatcher and now Bush-Blair. History will judge Thatcher in a more favourable light and desevedly so. Read the book 'Road to Sefdom' by Hayek and one will understand Thatcher's economic philosophy. Big government managing economies and curtailing freedom of individualism has been forever reversed. In the international front,Reagan and Thatcher definitely made a permanent mark in world history for ending the Cold War. History will also judge Bush-Blair well for beginning the long and difficult struggle in defeating yet another enemy - yes I will mention it here - Islamic Fascism. In the long term the pacifist and appeasement group will be faced to acknowledge once again how wrong they were. On the domestic front, Blair will not be credited for much except that he managed to keep the liberal Labour Party from moving back to even larger wasteful government spending and wealth redistribution. Gordon Brown? My guess - less successful on both fronts. History (50 years down the road!)will judge leaders favourably for having big ideas and doing great things mostly unpopular during its time - think Truman, Reagan and yes Bush. And imagine Clinton's legacy ???? Lewinsky ???

Wow! Blair a good leader because of the well run London Metro?!! and good universities ?? I need to find out who was the PM in Thailand for starting the city train. He should be a great leader as well according to Jeff.

JEFF OOI says: London Metro is beyond the century-old Underground. Skip the tunnel-vision and you will see an oldcity that is rather future-proof. But if London as a metropolitan can be managed efficiently, it does reflect the standard of governance in other part sof the country.Your way of drawing a parallel the Thai PM and the city train vis-a-vis befits only only someone in diapers and brain-size of a postage stamp. I don't mean to ridicule but you are what you write. My blog is not to be cheapened by your demeanour.

Tony Blair the British premier,
Always to war he shouts with sincere,
Punctual transportation is what we admire,
Going to Iraq was the biggest blunder.

Jeff

Blair a great british leader - who have you been talking to in the UK?

JEFF OOI says: People in media-related industry, some in academic research, who study Blair up-close and personal.

A great manipulator, for certain - a man who changed his opinion on everything to get elected from being against nuclear arms to support for the US!

Someone who says the state education is in OK condition but doesn't send his children to state school!

Employs spin doctors to lie on his behalf.

Has spent the least amount of time in Parliament than any other modern day UK Prime Minister.

Reduced Prime MInisters Question time from twice a week to once a week so he didn't have to face difficult questions on Tuesdays and Thursdays only Wednesdays.

A Prime Minister who lied over Iraq!

JEFF OOI says: Hence,part ofthe reasons I don't agree with his foreign policies on invading Iraq.

A wife who earns money and basks in the glory of her husband to earn money from speaking engagements and court appearances while he is still in office.

Has presided over the break up of the union allowing for the introduction of the Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assembly. This effectively means that Scottish MP's can vote on purely English matters but English MP's cannot vote on purely Scottish matters.

A man who claims to be a socialist and support the working class but actually doesn't live it. It has been said Socialism is great as long as I don't have to live it and Blair certainly doesn't.

In his eagerness to appease Bush allows an Extradition treaty to signed with the US that allows for extradition without the need for the US to prive a Prima Facia case. The US was supposed to implement the same treaty but Congress has vetoed it. As a result three bankers are extradicted to US over crimes suppodesly committed in the UK for which the UK authorities never bought criminal charges.

Blair has constantly eroded the British heritage and given up our soverignty to Europe and the US. A great British leader never. Sir Winston Churchill, Lady Margaret Thatcher they were great British Leaders Blair is not fit to clean their shoes.

With regards to the economy no incoming Government has ever has such a strong economy as the Labour Party did in 1997. That is an accepted fact. Brown not Blair managed the economy.

Jeff when you refer to the Metro you must thinking of Paris. Paris has a Metro London has the Underground. Blair has had nothing to do with that.

JEFF OOI says: Another stamp-sized mind who thinks London is just the century-old Underground. Perhaps this website could help us a little: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/

Red Ken (Livingstone) became Mayor of London and appointed a senior American to run the Underground not Blair. So please do not give credit to Blair where it is not due.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion but I have many friendluy discussions with American and UK friends of mine as we discuss a film made about the two leaders, actually before their time, but it is called Dumb and Dumber. We always argue over who is dumber. The Americans say Bush the Brits say Blair!

JEFF OOI says: It is very obvious who between Bush and Blair is smarter. No-brainer and no issue on this.

Jeff before pronouncing someone a great leader please get all the facts and don't be hog washed by their oratory.By the way he is an excellent orator but look at his training and you will understand why.

JEFF OOI says: Having gone through years of dysfunctional governance in Malaysia, I wouldn't mind having a Blairite PM for this country. There may be filth and skeletons in the political closet (hadn't wein Malaysia?), but the quality of engineering and high education withstand the test ofti me, and the domestic economy has left behind its lethargy. In 1998, I recognised him as a 40-something who owns a Fender Stratocaster. In 2003, I saw him tumble as he cheated on WMD and indirectly caused an atomic scientist to die in pain and in vain. In 2005, I saw him struggle to redeem himself as a tarnished leader due to the Iraqi Invasion. In 2006, I saw him in his political twilinght, but his chin held high. Though I don't subscribe to his foreign policy on invading Iraq, I nevertheless stand by my opinion that Blair is a great leader in my eyes. He couldn't have fooled the Britons for three terms, and Brits are that stupid after all. My friends there convince me so with their quality as refined individuals. Neither do I doubt about yours either.

This one is for U,Jeff....

Hari hujan puyuh mendengut,
Mendengut mari sepanjang jalan;
Bush dan Blair sudah hanyut,
Menanti Paklah menghitung bulan.

JEFF OOI says: Thanks. I got your drift.

Pokok durian biarpun tua
Buahnya enak diminat jua
Dr M dan Blair pinang belah dua
Menantu PM disanjung siapa?

JEFF OOI says: Leithaisor dah jual pantun. Siapa pula beli pantun ni?

pengembara:

Do not forget the legacy of Thatcher: privatization, killing off labour unions. These are all good and dandy for people who have money, but left many, especially those living on the margine, unprotected. Thatcher was a good friend of the Reagan. Same policy as what we see now with Blair. Only different US presidents. BOTH running their country on US model. Or British Rail, NHS. There are a whole lot of problems left behind, swept under the rug, by Thatcher.

I do agree I trusted Thatcher much more than I would Blair. Somehow Blair always gives me that 'liar' looks and feels. BUT, he has a few great points.

It is ashame, in a way, to see him making the same mistake as Thatcher ... power gets into his system and refuse to go when the time is long overdue. If he did not run for 3rd term (let alone the 4th one), he would NOT be down in the history as REFUSING to go.

Then one wonder what would happen if JF Kennedy was not assassinated? What would be his legacy to the world politics?

Pohon bergoyang disalahkan beruk
RMK9 tergendala disalahkan iblis
Ekonomi negara semakin teruk
Harta negara dikebas habis

Hahahaha.... having studied in the UK and worked in the financial sector for 2 years, only in Malaysia I hear someone raving what a great leader Blair or any PM for that matter is for the well maintained London Metro. Well, I hope the next great leader in Malaysia will build and maintain futuristic toilets for the M'sian public. That should keep Jeff happy and proud. Also, I'm amused to see so many including the smartest one around Mr. Jeff Ooi mentioning who's smart, smarter , dumb etc. Are you qualified to do so. Stick to the issues and debate thoughts and idealogy if you have any.

JEFF OOI says:
Orang bestari mengangkat talam,
Bedak baiduri dalam cerana;
Adakah matahari terbitnya malam,
Adakah sehari bulan purnama.

Dari Benta ke Pulau Rusa,
Singgah makan di Pahang Tua;
Ada masa ada ketika,
Ular lidi menelan naga.

Verily, there were and there still are dropouts from some parts of the world that make Malaysia ultra egoistic upon their return. Kesian minda tersumbat.

Hilir dari Bengkahulu,
Singgah menjala di bulan terang;
Bagaimana tongkang nak lalu,
Kalau sudah dilingkung karang.

Masih kesian.

SInggah makan di Pahang Tua
Singgah siar di Tasik Bera
Ular lidi menelan naga
Ular lidah lebih berbisa

Menjala di bulan terang berbakul ikan
Masak asam sedap rasanya
Tongkang terlinkung berjaya dialihkan
Minda terlinkung buruk padahnya.

"It trains leaders of the future -- not only for England, but for the world over".

Jeff, I don't agree fully :-).We have got a racial clown from Oxford. Would be a disaster to the country if he became Prime Minister one day.

Jeff

A stamp sized mind....obviously you still don't understand the issue here Paris has a Metro London does not. There is no mention of that name in the web-site you highlighted in your response. Maybe it is buried deep!

Your comment refering to the size of my mind is derogatory and rude, none of my comments were personal about you and quite frankly I'm surprised that you choose to make personal comments. People normally start to make derogatory personal remarks because they have lost the arguement. I'm surprised if you you think this as at the end of my post you still reaffirm your belief that Blair is/was a Great British leader. Jeff that is the beauty of freedom of speech we can all have our opinions but experienced debaters do not resort to cheap personal attacks about people.

JEFF OOI says:

Saya ke rumah Cik Tahir,
Lihat orang angkat kerami;
Encik laksana kiambang di air,
Akar tidak berjejak ke bumi.

You are of a stamp-size mind I often see who can't read the context of blog topics and launch themselves onto moral high horses. Rude? Yes, it's RUDE of someone to have twisted metropolitant London to Parisian trains! You praise or you bury Blair -- that's the context of this blog topic. London being an old city that behaves and runs like a future-proof metropolitant, with an efficient multi-modal public transport transport system lining its core --that's a reflection of a well-run government. Paris was NEVER a consequence of this blog topic and context.

London now thanks to Livingstone is starting to have an integrated transport policy that had never been the case under successive Central Governments. By the way I am not a Livingstone fan but transport is one of the thigs he has worked hard on in London to improve. London transport is a run by the Mayor of London's office. Look at the poor transport infrastructure throughout the rest of the country to understand how successive administrations have neglected public transport in the UK.

With regard to the idea that most Brits are not stupid and he got elected for three terms is partly true but the lack of a coherent electable opposition played a major part in his success. John Major was a recipient of getting elected as a Prime Minister due to a poor unelectable opposition.

Blair's success was in reuniting the Labour party to ensure it got elected to Government and then holding ot together to win another two elections but that internal peace is beginning to disappear again. I still maintain a great leader of the country no; a successful leader of his party that cannot be disputed but they are not the same.

churchill beat the germans,
Blair beat the Iaqis,
but it was Maggie Thatcher who stood up to the unions and beat them to the pulp, and tranform Uk into what it is today.
Don't believe me, then ask Mahahir. He was a disciple.
And what was correct on Transport matters t be managed locally.

Jeff...saya beli pantun Leithaisor

Pemuda Malaysia takkan berselindung,
Mulutnya manis hidung tak mancung,
Mengapa perlu dia disanjung,
Cakapnya kosong poketnya bertong.

Daun lengkuas daun pisang,
Daun disulam menjadi alas,
Dari Oxford tidak bertiang,
Kalau hidup bermotifkan emas

Mrs T a great leader??

Come again...

1 decade 2 recessions, 3 million+ unemployed, oil money squandered, homeless living on the streets again.

Yeah right.

And while we're at it, get your facts about the West Lothian question correct expat. Those who sit in the Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assesmbly aren't Members of Parliament.

One wonders if Mrs T hadn't followed policies so abhorent to the Scots and Welsh whether there would have been any desire for those assemblies (check out Devolution vote held just before she came to power in 1979). Mrs T did more to disunite Britain than anyone else...how many seats in Scotland and wales did the Conservatives win in 1997? Nil

Habisboy my facts are correct English MP's cannot vote on Scottish only issues but Scottish MP's can vote on purely English issues.

In regards to you raising the Welsh Assembly I did not raise this as they have a different function to the Scottish Parliament with much reduced powers

My post highlights the major issue of Scottish MP's being able to vote on English issues in the House of Commons whereas English MP's do not have that right because of the Scottish Parliament.

In fact those sitting in the Scottish Parliament Habisboy are Scottish Members of Parliament. Their short title is MSP (Member of Scottish Parliament) so please get your facts correct they are members of Parliament albeit of the Scotish Parliament.

Again free speach allows you to say Lady Thatchers policies were abhorent well we will agree to differ but one thing is for sure she did put the governance of Britain back where it belonged in Parliament and out of the hands of unelected trade union barrons who thought they ran the country. In fact she got into power because the trade unions screwed the Labour governement with their winter of discontent.

With regards to the 1997 General election John Major was then the leader of the Tory party and many other issues affected the result not least the amount of sleaze that was correctly perceived by the population. Which incidently is once again being perceived by the population with the current administration. Maybe we should draw from this that being in power for too long corrupts but that is another debate to have at another time maybe!

JEFF OOI says: Great, with some knocks here and there, the stamp-sizemind now behaves like a Core 2 Duocmicrochips. It does compute now by coming back precisely to the blog's intended context -- the Blair administration and its legacy. Which is not a bad thing.

Jeff

You surely have a closed mind the issue here was you were praising Blair for a Metro in fact we do not have a metro in Lomdon.

JEFF OOI says: All the while, I refer to London Metro as an old city that has been run like a future-proof metropolitan. Metro does not literally refer solely to Paris-like train (which actually is your stamp-sized mind argument). If you fail to comprehend the notion of metro as in a metropolitan, then try cosmopolitan. In my context. if an age-old metro like London, the capital city, can be made to run efficiently where mobilisation of human and vehicular traffic is interfaced efficiently on a multi-modal transport grid, it reflects how well other components of the a country -- and by extension -- its governance, are being managed. SECONDLY, domestic economy in UK has evidently improved; THIRDLY, this is a Labour Party that survived its populace and fully enjoying its 3rd term. Throughout the period where domestic economy had improved, and the Labour had made a 3-term rule and Blair happened to be its leader, UK's PM -- he is great. The centre piece of argument for this blog topic starts here and ends here. The rest are infantile digression.

It is my contention that the improvements in London transport are not a result of Blairs policies but Livingstomes. I never changed the issue to Paris you have done that. It is a shame you have no sense of humour your comments continue to be rude but then that I suppose it is to be expected as you need to retain face.

I actually did respond to your blog giving many reasons why I didn't agree with your ascertion that Blair was a great leader.

In fact you have not responed to any of the comments made other than to suggest I have a stamp sized mind. Very purile and one that confirms your mind is closed and not open to others views on this particular issue.

As for moral high horses Jeff you are the pot calling the kettle black here. You get on your moral high horse on many topics

JEFF OOI says: That's what exactly separates the man (me) and the stamp (you). I run this blog and I run the way I want it. I have written my will, and so I write and ready to be damned. But the crux is, we Man talk about ideas while you Stamp-sized mind hijacks blog topics and launch yourself into sermons. Start your blog man, and preach in your own temple. But in here, my blog, I will NOT allow you stamp to hijack my blog context and trivialise our conversations on the Blair legacy.

which is to be commended as you create debate within society about many issues that should be aired so please less of the personal rude attacks

JEFF OOI says: Yes, indeed it's very RUDE of someone to hijack the context of my blog topic in a blog space he comes in as a guest. The stamp-sizedmind just made it worse.

and more of the articulate educated positioning and for goodness sake get a sense of humour the Paris metro London undertground thing was meant as a little light hearted comment!

JEFF OOI says: You are making slimey, snakey turn again. Humour? Try pantun, it's on the headline of this blog entry in case it can't fit into the mind-size stamp.

Mulut manis kata sahaja
Tayang wayang darah panas
Yang disanjung kata dikota
Biar miskin hati jati mas

Tinggi lambai pokok bulu
Beribu guna harga tiada
Mata emas hati palsu
Wira asli, budi tak terkira.

You started the topic of Blairs legacy and as such opened up the debate which meant that he would be compared to other world leaders so not quite sure how the blog topic has been hijacked. You also highlighted why you thought he was a great leader again this opens up the debate for others to disagree.

By positng rude personal comments you have hijacked your own blog topic.

JEFF OOI says: Same old same old stamp-sized mind... Kesian.

Kemuning di tengah balai,
Bertumbuh semakin tinggi;
Berunding dengan orang tak pandai,
Sebagai alu pencungkil duri.

From Pantun Melayu (RO Winstedt, Pg 35)

"Mrs T a great leader??

Come again...

1 decade 2 recessions, 3 million+ unemployed, oil money squandered, homeless living on the streets again."

Yeah right.

Habisboy . ...

What was the alternative without the drastic medicine? Productivity was low, quality bad and costs were high. It was like cancer so surgergy was what the Iron Lady ordered. Classical example was British Leyland.

Rubbish were piled up everywhere when the dustmen were on strike and creating health hazzard situation.

And what about sympathy strike and not crossing the picket lines?

At least Maggie had the guts not to do a u-turn until the patient started to mend.

peace

Without Mrs T, there would have been 3 million unemployed britons here in malaysia. You shuld thank the lucky stars that she did not believe in giving crutches to the union by taxing the rich into migrating to another country. before Maggies time, Elton john was based in switzerland, the rolling stones in the us, top executive were getting peanut pay, and getting more will mean paying scandalous tax rates(up to 90%).
Time Malaysian goevrnment do the same with the NEP.Sometimes you need a strong medicine to cure the symptoms.
Blair was merely riding maggies wake. puny in comparison.

Fair comment expat. I misread your earlier comment. How to resolve that issue? Don't know, but I guess it is the price to be paid to ensure taxation from oil revenues goes to Westminster.

Pengembara, too bad she killed the patient (British industry) in cutting out the cancer