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Lower fines will not eradicate corruption. Policemen will just ask for a smaller contribution in lieu of the reduced fines. What used to be a RM50 duit kopi for speeding maybe reduced to RM 25 :)

Personally, the traffic fine structure shall remain as it will deter folks from driving recklessly on the road endangering others. Higher oil prices and cost of living has nothing to do with traffic fines. Drive safely and follow the rules and there will be no fines to worry about.

Only in Malaysia can you be REWARDED for BREAKING THE LAW. And we wonder why we have chaos on the roads?

UNBELIEVABLE

Students get murdered and malls are no longer safe. Almost everyday on papers we see citizens get hurt, go into coma, or died from snatch thefts.

Why are police not addressing these problems. Instead, wasting energy something (reducing summon fines) when its already working well.

"Why should I pay my fine now in the knowledge that it will soon be discounted?" This is what many will probably be thinking.

I myself pay my fines duly. But in my opinion, laws should be strictly enforced, and fines even raised. Most people break the laws now because they know:
a) they might get away with it
b) fines will always be lowered or discounted, or the dates for payment extended

Why should the people be given any leeway? Just enforce the laws strictly and fairly. I suspect the number of minor traffic infringements will drop.

Fines for speeding, cutting double lines, red light cutting, should be tripled instead of reduced.
But... this is bolehland everything is ok, and the police is a state within a state!

On another note....

Jeff I just noticed that INTEL announced they are cutting 10,500 jobs. I did a search to see if geographical areas of business were mentioned but couldnt find any. Im worried for our friends up in Penang. So much for all the new FDI's coming into this country

Sorry, I dont quite understand some of you guys! Reducing the fines is exactly what Malaysia needs. This WILL reduce bribery. If you compare fines with the western world, Malaysia's fines were outrageous when compared with the earning capacity of Malaysians.

I think we need to choose our battles otherwise we (the people trying to bring positive changes) will only end up looking like whiners!

Malaysia needs a database of violators where each violation is recorded and the insurance companies have access to these records. So your yearly auto insurance rates are according to your driving record. SIMPLE! (this is how western countries do it!)

If I may point out that everyone has missed the point possiby because of being a beneficiary of the reduction.

The rationale given for the move is - to quote theSun - to reduce, eliminate or prevent the police from taking bribes.

That is the key.

Firstly, there is now official acknowledgement that we have a serious issue with bribery. I believe that this is the first time it is openly acknowledged what has been common knowledge all this time - that we do have an issue with graft and integrity.

2. It also acknowledges that the chain of command is unable to do anything about it, such as by imposing stiff penalties including but not limited to fines and even the loss of employment or police powers to those caught taking bribes.

3. The reduction, while it benefits those with outstanding summons is but a small tree in the forest. One should consider if there are other reasons for this reduction, such as the inability to enforce the collections of millions of ringgit in penalties.

4. Lets not even bring up the issue of religion. The respective religious authorities did not step forward and issue statements prohibiting such graft among their adherents. That would in itself create a little more regulation which is known in certain countries as the counterbalance of Church and State, or if you would have it to be Mosque and State.

JIGSAW....your recommendation is a truly good one. Im all for it. However in light of not having that, what kind of signal do you think lowering fines sends to the law breakers?

When the system is in place then I can see lowering rates but not now when there is NO SYSTEM.

Sorry if I look at it very simply but if you break the law. You pay full price (not a discount)

On the other hand, have our bolehland Ministers settled their traffic fines yet??

source: http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/55030

Traffic fines: Ministers ignore deadline
Bede Hong
Aug 7, 06 8:35pm

With Ops Warta IV ending today, cabinet ministers still record a total of 101 unpaid traffic summonses totalling RM10,790.

IMHO, the action is timely.

Before we condemn lower fine, please give reason why it should not be lower. Don't forget to check the police statistic on summons.

Bare in mind that the summons/fines are not suppose to be REDICULOUSLY high. And the WORST are the accidents compound of RM300.

Did anyone notice Malaysian waste at least 3-8 production hours in minor accidents case? With insurnace excise clause of RM450 and the max RM300, plus a penalty on NCB, the "minimum" cost of accident is around RM850(assume 3rd party insurance ).

And not to forget the high fine high number of summons(traps) turn motorist into insenstive drones. With millions of unpaid summons, it will do no good to the police departments. Because Malaysia court and police department will be paralise if they bring each unpaid summons on court.

Traffic offense fines are suppose to be serve as penalty reminder, not something that promote bribery culture.

In facts, higher fine in Malaysia DOES NOT reduce road accident. It is a multitude of problems, e.g. road design, vehicle maintenance, driver altitude.

Lowering of traffic fines is a better system rather than having the occasional discount periods. Personally, I would rather pay the fines than bribing if the fines are not of a significant amount.

Besides, I thought we have the demerit system in place to deter repeat offenders. Accumulate enough demerit points and the license will be suspended. CKC must surely be aware of this, unless since the demerit system is tracked by JPJ, traffic summons by the police are not included. I say really enforce the demerit system. Get the repeat habitual offenders of the street.

If the power to amend of traffic fines lies with the police (I have no idea what the law says), why is the MOT making noise? Unless the law says differently which doesnt seems to be, as I gather from the news report.

Hey, since Customs cannot reply through the mass media, how come the PDRM is allowed to? Does this also means the “I am wearing the anti–rasuah button badges” campaign is officially not effective?

In this circumstances..lowering fines and bribing cops are totally 2 different issues.

What the traffic police are telling us is that,now it cost lesser to bribe the police yah?

While we are acknoledged the fact that bribing traffic police is well entranched in our society... we not refusing to acknowledge the root of this issue,which is also disciplinary problems within the police force?

Just ourself 2 month... you will see the result for yourself...

All my fines have always been for 'speeding', if you call driving at 90km/h (max 110 km/h) speeding. The powers that be need to reassess the road condition too and be realistic. There are stretches of roads going on and on for 15-18km with limits of 60 km/h ALL THE WAY.

Accident-wise, I think the insurance company should reward certain 'safety item' like ABS,Airbag etc by reducing the premiums on cars so equipped rather that just based on price,cc and year!!!

IMHO another reason why ppl are so reluctant to pay fines is that we can't stand dour face policemen everytime we go and pay our samans. In case you haven't notice some of these fellas would stand around start snickering away on what or how we wear or even worse they might juz make subtle racial remarks around us.

Of course the best way to avoid all of these is not to get any samans at all. But then again this is Malaysia...what do u expect? :P

Why not have SAM (Self-service Automated Machines) like they do in Spore? Shame to say I had 2 road offences there the last time and I paid them on the same day due to availability of such machines located at strategic locations around the city(and owing to the fact also if i dont pay i won't be able to get out. :))

No matter what is the amount stated for the fines, we Malaysian truly have a talent of either accepting or giving bribes thus both parties are guilty most of the times. So what is the point of reducing the fines? We will simply give lesser bribes that's all. Find a way to expedite the whole saman process whould be the best solution IMHO.

The police is trying to improve and I think it is not a bad idea. I think it will reduce bribery. Frankly speaking, I wouldn't want to pay bribe if possible. If people want to break the law, I don't think they think about how much they have to pay, especially those already got the habit of doing it. So, increasing or reducing has no effect on these people. However, I think the fines for drunk driving should not be discounted.

I heard before some people allocate money to pay for the fines, especially speeding on the north south highway because the time they save can cover the costs. Less fine means can speed more often. This could encourage certain group of people break the law more often. I like jigsawpuzzle's idea. If you break the law more often, you pay for the price at the end of the year when you renew your license, if serious enough, have their license suspended.

very stupid decision and the worst is the reason is because to prevent the public from bribing the police.

if you have the best system in universe but if your man is corrupted then it will forever corrupted, those corrupt mind will always find ways to fulfilled their needs.

instead of disciplining their man, they put blame on public

bodoh, bodoh, bodoh...3x bodoh

Jeff,

Fines do not deter nor mitigate against road mishaps or accidents. Accidents are consequences of negligence, mistakes, carelessness, recklessness, high speed, racing, etc.

High speed is only one of the problem but it could only constitute less than 10% of the fatal accidents.

Mat Rempits records shows there were more fatalities and road bullies; yet, UMNO is legalising them and throwing their support behind them to make them "Cermelang and Gemilang".

Road safety management is not just about fines or summonses; it include education, civic consciousnes and effective management.

Whether you reduce fines or increase fines, it will have no direct influence. Travellers who drives long distance will speed between 120-160kph and will mitigate their drive on certain sections prone to speed traps. Racers will continue and Mat Rempit will increase due to the proactive promotion by UMNO. Even ministers speeds!

1. The police admitted that their force is full of dirty and corrupted cops.
- By reducing the fines won't do the job!

2. It's pure stupid or dumbest thing to say the intention was to reduce public burden!
- If you chose to break the laws, you just have to be prepared for the consequences..as easy as that!

3. Everyone (i refer to government agencies) is taking things into their own hand now. The CEO of this country doesn't seem to know what's going on.
- God bless Malaysia!

Stop whinning, if you all really want to stop corruption, start from yourself, play your part, stop paying bribe to the police! Pay the fines!

Jeff,

For another take on corruption in Malasysia and whether its going downhill your readers may want to check out this posting http://unspun.wordpress.com/2006/08/28/malaysia-less-corrupted-than-indonesia-not/

Looks like under AAB our country is moving towards anarchy. First, we rocgnize the Mat Rempits and glorify them by upgrading them to Mat Cemerlangs even though they are law breakers and drug addicts because the authorities cannot or will not use drastic measures to eliminate them. Now we make it easier for traffic violators to get off lightly by reducing the fines. What next? Give State and National awards to taxi drivers who rob the public and the tourists or round up all the drug addicts and declare them as national heroes?

You have to give the Police a little credit for openly admitting that they have a problem with bribery within the ranks and that they do not have control and the little badges they gave out meant NOTHING. How much money did we waste on that? But the policy of reducing fines should come from the government and not the Police as they are answerable to the Prime Minister …No? Where is the Prime Minister? If the Police are setting their own policy then it would appear that they will have their own agenda that may or may not follow those of the government and this could lead to further problems.

On another note, I have seen police patrol cars and motorcycles not observe traffic laws when they out on the regular patrol. What kind of example are they setting? Do they know the rules? If they don’t, how do you police?

I drive with extreme caution and don't break any traffic rule sin australia as the ifne can be anything from A$600 to A$1000. Hell, i am even @#$% scared to use my mobile phone while driving in Oz.

ROAD TRAFFIC FATALITIES
in Australia for 2001:
8.9 per 100,000
population

1.4 per 10,000 motor
vehicles registered

With these facts, i beg differ moo_t's statement : "higher fine in Malaysia DOES NOT reduce road accident"

We need higher fines to deter road users from breaking the law. what is RM90 (using mobile phone while driving a motorcar) for someone who's driving a 7 series or an S class?

If on ecan't pay the fine, next alternative is a jail sentence of even the cane. I have had it with irresponsible road users. They are not only a danger to themselves but also a menace to innocent pedestrians and other law abiding road user.

Drivers in KL, Penang and JB are the worst!!

I think lowering fines is a practical immediate/temporary measure, though not ideal, to tackle the serious problem of traffic police bribery. There is a side effect, as people may be induced to drive more recklessly, but knowing Malaysian drivers ... the side effect would not be significant! The reality is ... we will drive like crazy and double park no matter how high the fine is at stake. Hefty fines simply mean we need to pay more to the cops, or we don't pay at all like the Ministers. Road safety is best achieved through education and discipline.
On a positive note: at least the police has started to take steps to tackle the corruption problem.

i'm just wondering... what was the going rate for bribes for speeding? excuse my ignorance but i've never got a speeding ticket in my life. really.
if a saman costs rm150. say is rm50-80 a fair price to pay to avoid the saman? then, if the price of a speeding ticket drops to rm50-90, a fair price for bribe should be in the region of rm20-30? surely it's still profitable to save rm30-60...
so, i can see a few possible outcomes reducing the saman prices could bring:
(i) lower "market rates" for bribes driven by lower competition(official) prices. or,
(ii) lower bribery rate for traffic offences because the offenders and police officers consider the risk of being caught too high for that samll amount of money. or,
(iii) the police just stop bordering about low penalty offences such as speeding and no-helmet because the return is too low. they will rather be doing something else to maintain the amount they take home monthly.
(iv) some of you might have seen this in movies or something... passenger to cab driver: "i'm in a hurry. get me to the airport fast. i'll pay for the speeding tickets." not likely, you say? anyone heard of the problems in singpore where rich car owners ask their employees to go pay for their tickets (parking, speeding, etc.) on a monthly basis because the fines are peanuts to them.
the way i see it. reducing fines will not cure corrupt police, they will just direct their attention to more profitable activities (no, i don't know what those activities may be but i'm sure the invisible hand of economics will see to that happening), that in addition to the fact that it's now cheaper to break the laws, will result in more accidents on the roads.
imho, the more effective way to prevent traffic offences related bribery is to remove the "human factor" from the issuance of saman and collection of fines. for e.g. speed cameras - posted tickets - pay at counters or online where no bargaining will be entertained. appeals will be taken care of through a formal process.
to more effectively "educate" rogue drivers, the jpj computer system needs to be interfaced with the polis one seamlessly. renewal of driving license and road tax will not be possible if there are outstanding samans. offences caught by the polis will automatically affect a driver's demerit points which will directly affect the insurance premium for the cars he/she owns.
that points to one of the problem we have - the billions spent on e-government got us no where. the inter-depertmental computer systems still don't talk to each others. the pm should set up a task force (he is at least good at that) to find out what went wrong and fix it. (yup more lucrative contracts for some, but heh, at least get it right lah.)

Notes:

Those who beak the law and can't pay the fine hould be jailed or caned or even have the driver's licence suspended.

A monetary reward to the cop that reports an attempt at bribery , upon succesful conviction of the 'briber'in the court of law. ANd i'm not talking about a RM 50 or RM 100 reward here. Maybe RM 500.

ANy comments?

I involved in an accident last month. A speeding motorcyclis bang into my car from front. Ofaouce, I was being blamed as I was the one with a bigger vehical size(car vs motor will end up car being the wrong party). I was issued a summon upon repoting the case to the police. The summon cost is a funny part:
If you pay on the spot, it will cost you RM300(as the office is off duty for rayuan).
If you pay after rayu, it will be RM200.
If you pay thru the workshop(the runner will 'settle' for you), you only need to pay RM180. But the receipt will only print RM100. Where is the RM80 goes? The runner say that is a kopi duit to the sarjan!! See!!

"We need higher fines to deter road users from breaking the law"

Australia different because their police do not take bribe. In Malaysia, however if the fine is like Australia, then the chances are offenders will find ways to pay an affordable price. And the police here takes bribe.

Playing with the fine amount does not do much. An effective anti-corruption team is the answer.

I moved to Australia two years ago. I had 5 speeding fines in the first 3 months and now I am decent law abiding driver. Hefty fines may work but only if you know that you can't get away with it cheaply.

how many of these offenders get caught on a daily basis? by right it shld be the harder it is to get caught, the stiffer the fine shld be. just this morning, i noticed no less than 10 cars taking the emergency lane while the rest of us adhere to traffic rules.

How can the reduced fine help the rakyat during inflation? I wont be able to benefit from it if I dont break any traffic laws. So how can the 50% savings be applicable to me? Instead it has a negative impact on our lives as we are being exposed to more law-breakers on the roads who hv no qualms to break more laws as it is now doubly cheaper to commit one. They can now take the risk of committing offences at every chance. Perhaps with the reduced fine, they can think that they can pay lower bribes. Mentality wont change.

What's next? The judges will reduced jail sentences so that criminals will admit to their crime and save the court's time?

I think this move will only benefit those Mat Rempits who can now get out of their sticky mess with just rm30-70. First the legalise kupchai racing on the roads, now they help them out financially. JUST GREAT!

you want my views? It's simple.

We need more youtube videos!

Now don't you guys think its strange that this thing happen only after someone recorded something for the world to see?

Remember what happened when the police videoed the ketuk ketampi girl?

Well here's waiting for someone to video some politician saying something "interesting" heheh :D

"corruption is a way of life"

I think it's good...but actually the summons need to be enforced properly.

The fact is right now they are lowering them as an incentive to get people to pay, you don't have to pay now and nothing happens if you don't pay.

Yah they have a clampdown now and then and arrest 1 person in front of TV cameramen to make a big thing out of it, then that's that..

You should HAVE to pay the summons within 30 days for a reduced rate, within 60 days for the full rate and if you don't pay within 60 days you are automatically summoned to court and possibly banned.

This is the system we have in UK, it's all automated and everyone pays EVERY summons, because if they don't they get banned, arrested and imprisoned.

Those people in UK that don't pay road tax have their cars crushed at the scrapyard.

People need to learn how to drive here too, how to signal, how to be courteous, how to use lane discipline, how to use roundabouts PROPERLY, I mean goddamnit its not rocket science is it?

I make my contribution by cursing at everyone driving badly :D

dr.love, i like your idea of paying cops who report attempts to bribe. money talk. bigger money win. pay them more money for not taking bribe than taking bribe. pay them to report on each other too.
only problem is the problem of entrapment. from what i've heard, neither the motorists nor the cops will jump into a deal. there are alot of probing, tolong-lah, simpan sini, etc. so sometimes, exactly who initiated the deal is not clear...

to those who thinks aussie cops don't take bribes - our cops are as human as anyone else. the only difference is the risk of getting caught, losing job and income, etc. is so much higher in australia. over here... well, anyone heard of a cop being charged for taking bribe? i heard it does happened, but can't give you a specific example. so, the rule is apa pun boleh...

groo hit it right on the head. the police is rewarding those who break the laws. if you are law abiding, you gain nothing. otoh, the more saman you got, the more you save!!

I have given one of the main reasons in my blog.

Just read in the star online that the cabinet has decided to postpone the reduction in the fines!
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/9/6/nation/20060906153743&sec=nation

I personally feel that fines should NOT be reduce but proper enforce the ruling!

Lower summons to reduce bribery? What a load of rubbish. It's like saying a corrupt cop will become clean after wearing a white badge on his uniform.

A crooked cop will remain a crooked cop no matter what the saman rates are. If corruption amongst the police is the real driver here, then we must tackle it first hand. Catch a few and make examples of them.

What's next I wonder. Increase the salaries of MPs & Ministers to reduce money politics?

It's funny you should say that desparil, one of the first steps in reducing corruption is paying proper salaries to Police..

The authorities should be focused on their objective, if the traffic summons meant to be a deterrant, it should be enforced such.

Nearly 90% of the sommons are speeding ticket issued by single-man operated speed guns making daily quotas to show the traffic enforcement is done but the millions of summons build-up burdening the very agency to do the debt collection.

Daily, majority of the inconsiderate & irresposible drivers hog the bus-lane, double park gongested city-centre roads, many over-take along emmergency lanes creating bottle necks, glog the yellow boxes, over-loaded and insecurely laden goods on trucks and speeding express buses yet nearly no enforcement target them and this duely encourage others follow suit.

Is the number of summons issued REALLY reflect the effective enforment?

Ain't the state of the drivers habit on the road the true reflection of the effectiveness of agencies?

Majlis Keselamatn Jalan Raya provided opportunity for the YBs the media oppoturnuty so now we have Road Safety Department but there seem no difference in the whole affair of road safety, remain the leading adex provider to the media organisation.

Don’t get distracted over the issue. Reduction of fines is different from paying up your summons. They are two different case anyway.

Of my suggestion, is to scraps all the outstanding summons, and using the new rate to settle your newly acquired summons. Why ?

Commenter Arison – The System is definitely not working well, facts that they are
1. Accumulative unsettled summons across the nation.
2. Waste too much energy & efforts for sending subpoena over premises and the rakyat had been asking the police do they have anything better to do?
3. Unsettled summons are accounted in paper only, not collectible over so many OPS Warta.

Commenter jigsawpuzzle – Reducing fines is reducing bribery, yes.
But reducing fines will increased the number of summons in long run. These outstanding unsettled summonses are not the results of giving bribery.
1. You are not being summoned after you paid your fines at roadside.
2. Roadside Judges make smaller fines than the actual Judges, and they still doing The Law, The Enforcer and The Judge daily no matter how small your offences to be.

The outstanding unsettled summons is yields from OPS Static, Hidden Camera for speeding, etc…
1. They use the hidden camera to take your picture while you are not aware.
2. They served you their subpoena after they failed to send you their Mail in Black.
3. Now they propose that to reduced the money you pay and published in Malaysian Mail in Black.
4. Even so many Ministers are NOT AWARE how many summonses are due for payments.

My Question to the Nations,
This act of RMP isn’t it similar as the seminude photos of Hong Kong Singers who sang at Genting Highland and was published in the magazine? 1 Media in Hong Kong reported that, the seminude photos were intended for bigger amount of money, but were reduced to a negotiated amount and sold to a Magazine.

Shame to Malaysia and our nation is sick.
1. Our MP should table a motion in Parliament, to scraps all outstanding summons because it is not ethically obtained.

BaganSPU

Reduction of traffic fines postponed

http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/9/6/nation/20060906153743&sec=nation

another Flip-Flop ?

hmmmm....

(...karang mat rempit senang disponsor saman...)

wah! bang ni kadar saman pun boleh diturunkan, ya.

hebat!

Why do we need roadblocks on the the expressways if summons can be issued by post.

hurray, another no-brain police decision overturned by cabinet. at least there is still common sense among our ministers. i agree that we should never reward law breaking with discounts. rather we should have a system of rewarding those who pay up within a certain deadline. those who persistent delay paying their fines should have their fines increased progressively, together with other actions like hauling then to courts and canceling their driving licences. it is time that we enforce our laws rigidly. our police is making our laws a mockery. no wonder they are so sick in their system. time for a total revamp.

I guess what we do not understand here is that there definitely need to reduce the attitude or rather practice of taking bribes among the police or anybody in Msia, if the police force is doing something to reduce the graft, what's the fuss, thought that Pak Lah is for reducing corruption. He does not know what he is saying nowadays.

Sometimes, we do not want the govt to influence in police's investigations and hope an independent commission will come in.

But now, the same ppl is hoping the govt will come in to regulate the reduced summons issue.

Do these same ppl have a solid stand? or are they normally making noise just for the sake of giving govt a hard time?.

don't you think of late over the last 1-2 years there appears to be more and more u turn happening
do not carry ic gets fined, later recind, bridge going ahead than scrapped. now fines discounting next day removed.
are we so indecisive!

It's not very a judicious move to reduce fines for traffic offences on the account of economic conditions or as a way to address the issue of corruption. It's what known as twisted logic. The only possible way to combat traffic lawlessness is to hit offenders where it really hurts, their pockets and their licence. We spent millions on having the Kejara system, why in the world can't we get the system working. I say increase traffic fines & throw away the keys to those who continually flout the law. I don't buy this argument that Malaysians being Malaysians, we are expected to drive like idiots on the road. I don't care if we have throw in jail thousands of these silly idiots. Ditto for those taking bribes, send them to hell for all I care. What we need now is stronger actions, more tangible deterence. We need to send the message ' commit a crime do some time'.