Screenshots

We are on the threshold of our 49th year as a nation.

May the days of the blog commentors be brighter than before.

May the days of the blog is mightier than the press come sooner than we think!

May God bless bloggers like Jeff!

Amen.

OBJECTION. you've set a very, very bad example for bloggers in malaysia.

i've never used any word which is "obscene, blasphemous, racial or overtly threatening" in this blog or any other blog, but i DISAGREE with your policy.

what is considered "obscene, blasphemous, racial or overtly threatening" by the government might not be so for the rest of the world. it's all SUBJECTIVE, and there is no way we can be sure that these vague and ambiguous criteria would not be abused by the government or anybody else when it suits their agenda.

in malaysia, we've already seen words such as 'official religion', 'special position', 'national security' and 'seditious' being abused and applied to out-of-context scenarios. the internet is the only space left for honest, straight talking.

for you to surrender our rights to free speech is very, very disappointing.

now, tell me if THIS is "overtly threatening"?!

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

come, SHOOT ME THEN.

second that.

wtf dude, you look like just like "sorry sorry tak buat lagi encik gunasegaram"

next you're gonna publish a guideline on whats "overtly threatening" and whats "maksud tersirat" and whats cincai2.

as jeff and most of you here would have expected, i agree mostly with the mediation results.
firstly, i started off with the opinion that iimran crossed the line with the "for good" statement. it is a great pity that the great majority of readers here did not share that onion and jeff also allowed it. imho, it's better if the removal and apology were the result of self/group moderation, instead of 3rd party mediation. of course it is still much better than litigation. i applaud both iimran and guna for settling this dispute in a mature manner.
secondly, jeff has been removing offensive phrases all along, so nothing should change on that front, of course his soreness for being slapped on the wrist for a [imo, poor] judgment call notwithstanding.

however, i do not agree with the "prominent warning" thing. primarily because that is not the norm for blogs and online forums. the legal responsibility of the commenters doesn't change with, or without, a “prominent warning”. we are still all responsible for what we say, and i have no illusion that jeff will protect my identity if sb officers knock on his door. but is a "prominent warning" like that now standard requirement for all malaysian based blogs and forums? I hope not. But if it’s specific to jeff only, than that is harassment.
have the mediation parties considered how this “prominent warning” thingy will affect the perception of the freedom of our online community and of our society in general? the online norm is to have the warning(s) in FAQ, or agreement when signing up, and enforced and reminded by moderating offending posts.
i don't believe a "prominent warning" will produce better results, but like the image of goose-stepping soldiers, it will surely give others a negative impression on us.

This warning is totally unnecessary. You want to read inciteful stuff? You want to read derogatory stuff? You want to read racist stuff? Just read Utusan Malaysia and some other UMNO based publications. Obviously we all know that we are what we write and we take responsibility for what we write. Many a time we write in anger and frustration and say a whole lot of things. Sometimes we curse and swear at people and call them names as well. Like I have called Guna an [ DELETED ] many a time for bringing about this whole idiotic situation. Now, that is my opinion. some would say that I was rude. But in New Zealand Guna would have been called a [ DELETED ] on the radio for causing an [ DELETED ] situation or creating an [ DELETED ] problem.

Some of us are just not bloody polite and that is NOT A CRIME! Should u have to be? No!..I do not think the blog creates any artificial impositions on conduct and behaviour. Infact it is the one medium which promotes penning it as you feel it. Of course the print media and other broadcast media have their own decorums on cunduct, behaviour and language and this is universal and its nature too promoted and caters for that.

But just becasue this is the internet and the blog, does it mean that we are totally immune from repercussions for what we write? Ofcourse not. I could be sued for libel and I could be charged for threats issued. I could be charged for incitement and I could be charged for a whole lot of things. So surely, without even thinking about it, I would most definitely stay away from subjecting myself to these. And I dare say most bloggers and posters I know do the same too. So Jeff, this is totally not necessary as far as I am concerned.

juslo, C-Fu.. I too share the sentiment over this latest warning on this blog space. However, let’s cut jeff some space here. I am sure his is weeping when he is typing this entry.

Lets be honest, it's not fair that we enjoy the "freedom of speech" over his blog while 99% of the time jeff will face the music alone when someone high up pissed/piss himself over what we wrote here.

There is an old saying in chinese "As long as we don't lose the mountain (this blog), we dont have to worry about wood(place to share our views)"

Personally, I think this “shooting” issue has been blown out of proportion. Recently, certain parties totally failed in hiding the news from the rakyat over multiple issues (TDM vs Pak lah, ECM-libra, beating of demonstrator at twin tower, etc). Officially they can't do anything because it's all truth. Unofficially, they can still instill fears and preasure. Lets just becareful and don’t give any chance for them to clamp down blog space. (This paragraph is however my own speculation and fruits for thought. I have no evidence what so ever and it's certainly not an accusation/threat of any sort to any party/parties)

I have a good suggestion, everyone now can copy the last sentence of my previous post and used it as disclaimer.

Do we have any lawyers reader?? anyone?? Help us by making the disclaimer more "law suit" proof

jeff!!!!

people - jeff's new PG (P. Gunasegaram's) standard: we cant even use "idiot", "bloody idiot" anymore!!

(he's deleted those words from Observer's post at August 30, 2006 10:41 AM)

u know what, jeff, u r acting like to P. Gunasegaram's macai now. look at the mirror: can u see how RIDICULOUS u have made yourself to be???

i weep for u, n for malaysia...

JEFF OOI says: By giving you guys the privilege of posting your comments, I was subjected to a Mediation Meeting. By attending the "Mediation Meeting", I have the obligation to perform what has been reached in consensus. Did I ask for all this and deserve all this? No.

I am asking again, when are you writing that decent letter to the Content Forum to express your views and have things straightened to your liking? If you think you are alone, why don't you start a campaign -- provided if at all you are serious about the whole Big Picture issue.

Hi Jeff,

With so many do's and dont's from the authorities, why don't you, host your server elsewhere to where they cannot touch you.

JEFF OOI says: Good idea. I blogged days ago that even Pro-Abdullah/Anti-Mahathir websites/blogs are now hosting anonymnously overseas, faceless. The URL is here:
http://www.jeffooi.com/2006/08/server_hosting_overseas.php.The sad thing is that I had wanted to be a proud Malaysian, to stand up and to be counted. Hence I host my server here in MSC areas.

FireAce,

thanks for your comments. let me tell u what my view about this whole episode is.

u said, "it's not fair that we enjoy the "freedom of speech" over his blog while 99% of the time jeff will face the music alone when someone high up pissed/piss himself over what we wrote here."

my position is, blogs r only SPACES, (i've argued this before, when jeff asked us about "pre-mod or not") just like cafes, n cafe owners should not b responsible for what is being said in the cafe, paper manufacturers should not b responsible for what is being written on it.

the law is still unclear on what r the legal liabilities of bloggers. if there is such a law (i dont know), it has yet to b tested in court for its constitutionality/legality.

so, y should jeff cave it??? jeff could have taken the above position, ie. that he's only offering a SPACE, nothing else. that he does NOT moderate the comments, so he's not responsible for anything said there.

THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE DEFAULT LEGAL POSITION, BUT JEFF GAVE IT UP. AND NOW, THE AUTHORITIES HAVE A GOOD EXAMPLE IN JEFF TO SET AS THE STANDARD FOR ALL OTHER BLOGGERS.

can u c what DAMAGE jeff has done to us ALL???

if he gets into trouble, i'm sure many lawyers would be happy to help him out in court for free. but, being "the most influential blogger in malaysia", he's perhaps too worried about getting his ass dragged back to the Bureau/KGB n kicked.

- that's what i said last time, n i still havent changed my position.

- jeff, i'm sorry u got dragged to the mediation. but u could have stood firm n avoided the setting of a precedent, a very very bad precedent.

JEFF OOI says: Talk is cheap. Try to set up a blog, host it in Malaysia, put your real name and contact numbers there. Start defaming anyone and see what happens. Talk is cheap. Just Do it and tell the consequences.

Again, I am saying you are whining and ranting and barking up the wrong tree! You are running away from the REAL issue and pretend you are a big fighter of Freedom of Expression> Come onlah, save us the agony!

jeff,

get this:
"Start defaming anyone and see what happens"

it's NOT YOU who is doing the 'defaming'. but u've chosen to OWN UP to what the commentators said. y should u???

JEFF OOI says: That because Sections 211, 212 and 213 of the CMA 1998, and the set of traditional, non-cyberlaws (Penal C0de), Defamation Act, Sedition Act etc ) has already done us in BEFORE I started blogging! You fight thelaw. I won't. I will abide the law and be the citizen. But if you are fighting the law, go elsewhere. I want my peace in here. Your battle is not mine. I will only fight my own war for the larger good. Not yours.

juslo,

Let's say you own a kopitiam, I gathered along huge crowd of people to your shop and start talking about "current issues" and I'm gaining support. All of us in the same time is having roti bakar and kopi-O, just like any kopitiam patron did.

Now someone outside overheard one person in the crowd say something that they dont like and complaint to the authority.

Do you think that you, as the owner of the kopitiam, will escape even without being questioned? The fact that you didn't evict the crowd from your shop already enough reason for the authority to drag you in. Did you really think that telling the authority that the crowd is patroning you shop give you enough credit to go unscratch?

Now think abbout this, this kopitiam (blog space) belongs to jeff, he is the owner and also the crowd gatherer at the same time. Do you really think he wants to OWN UP all our comment? All he choose to do is try as hard as he can not to banned anyone even though sometimes the comments are denting someone egos (not defame). This lands him in hot soup this sometime.

Face it, this country is still far behind in terms freedom of speech. There are things we can say, and there are things we can say ... only privately. All we can do is slowly change the views of everyone and gain more support to push for more freedom in speech. At this momment, going head-butt with the authority over this issues only bring harm.

Just my 2 cents worth, don't go barking on this tree also.

FireAce,

"Now someone outside overheard one person in the crowd say something that they dont like and complaint to the authority."

i disagree with the analogy with 'crowd'. here, commentators CAN BE IDENTIFIED, n the commentators INDIVIDUALLY could be held responsible for their comments.

if u want to talk about authorities who abuse their powers, then i cant answer u. they can even prevent all of us from drinking coffee or talking.

Now you get the point.. Yes they can do that.

Jeff is just simple blogger with no Tun-ship or Parliament privilege.

Haiyah, all this complaining about Jeff deleting this, deleting that. Why blame him?

Blame yourselves lah. Most of you lot don't fooking know how to properly have a sensible discourse (yes, look it up) about issues, without having to call people swear words.

Tee, hee.

Hi Jeff,how about us commentors who live overseas,are we subject to Malaysian law or some other law?

JEFF OOI says: I might be wrong so I shall stand corrected. By Malaysian citizens are still subject to domestic laws even though they are overseas. That's why you still pay income tax when you earn in foreign country and back back revenue. Secondly, yes, digital trails can be tracked even if you are posting from overseas. Complex counter-insurgence agencies had managed to track down criminals through cybercafes.

yup, looks like all you from outside the country, where talk is even cheaper, should come back or otherwise for ever hold your peace... and not talk too much...

Hi all,

You all should read http://www.malaysia-today.net/Blog-n/2006/08/hidden-agenda-in-rotate-post-call.htm#c115686484013703238

thanks kokster99,thats a good example what would happen if jeff dont moderate the comments.

But should RPK be concern,he is registered in Malaysia?

Registrant:
Mt Management Services
5 Jalan Brp 5.5
Bukit Rahman Putra
Sungai Buloh, Selangor 47000
my

Domain name: MALAYSIA-TODAY.NET

i have a completely different take on the malaysia-today.net thread from you tiredguy. i believe that thread is a good example of how an unmoderated forum still didn't blow up despite some racist's attempt to start a fire. now that shows maturity of most malaysian net users and show the culprits for what they are.

Dear Jeff,

You did what you had to do as per the result of the Mediation Meeting. Still it left a bitter feeling at the back of people's tongues. When I say people; the readers of Screenshots.

Ach, what can one do as this blog operates within the 'net space' of the Malaysian cyber laws? Freedom of speech is impeded and self censorship is subjected on comments.

Still the bad apples have made it seem the entire barrel is tainted. I didn't meant this directly at commenter Ilmran; I think what he said is valid and justified. But because an authority 'of sorts' choose to see it beyond the intended context this happened.

The bad apple that I'm talking about is commenters like Juslo, yes. You spout off comments without thinking about the consequences and at times its like on whining and whinging. Keep it up and you utter the wrong word and Jeff's Screenshots will be in more deeper mud that he already is.

Folks

This is what the Communications and Multimedia Content Forum
said:

".... that are obscene, blasphemous, racial or overtly threatening, including the use of partial words or phrases where the intent is clearly offensive.."

Let me fire first shot to test the waters.

I say the "Communications and Multimedia Content Forum " is a forum of a bunch of clowns for making such a recommendation.

How do you classify that statement I just made?

- obscene?
- blasphemous,?
- racial ?
- or overtly threatening ?
- offensive ?

Of course it is offensive, after all criticisms are offensive. Have you ever heard of criticisms that are not offensive?

The big red warning 'internet does not operate in a legal vacuum' right above the comment link is an eyesore after a while, to be honest. And now this?

I feel disappointed. A little bit with you, a little bit with the comical bureau and well, the government.

By reading through all the above comments and your responses, i know talk is cheap and yes, you dont deserve this. And frankly, i dont have solution on hand either. :(

Dont get me wrong, i, along with many here, are against baseless argumentative comments with a taste of bigotry, but most of the time, there exist a fine line between that kind of comment with the freedom of speech.

Most of the time, many of us would choose to let the readers and peers to decide on that distinction. Those who reads your blog, after all, care about something (you dont read this blog on sunday evening listening to Vivaldi's 4 seasons) and debate can at times get heated up. Now how much 'heated up' or as the bureau put it - obscene, blasphemous, racial or overtly threatening, including the use of partial words or phrases where the intent is clearly offensive - is considered as too much? That is now, sir, up to your discretion.

And that is a step backward in many ways.

JEFF OOI says: Should there be a tiby opening, we should try to forge it open into a wide window. Don't let the Nexnews menace shut that tiny opening we have today That's what I hope.

This is what you see before you post a comment on the news.com.au site.
"We welcome your comments on this story. Comments are submitted for possible publication on the condition that they may be edited. Please provide your full name. We also require a working email address - not for publication, but for verification. The location field is optional. Read our publication guidelines."
So Jeff's not doing anything too extraordinary.