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MAS can't even make much money plying the KUL-SIN-KUL route, and Francis wants to try?

MAS is still using Airbus A330 and Boeing 737-400 for this route, while SIA is already using Boeing 777-200. Much more spacious and modern. Sigh..

Maybe this idea was hatched to cancel the bridge project, and the beneficiaries are people close to the new PM.

Could this be the reason why the bridge idea was abandoned?? The bridge benefited Tun's cronies..

Just a guess.

I think its a good idea, anyway, no public fund is being used.

Unlike YTL, MAS is a GLC company, bound to be wastage and mis-management in the company.

I don't know how he is going to do it, but its a good idea. Imagine staying in KL (cheaper living cost) and work in Singapore. Earning double the income while staying in KL.

I think this is a great idea, as long as it can be run profitably without using public funds.

The competition is not the express bus, but MAS/SIA. The KUL-SIN route is a very profitable route for both MAS and SIA. It is a duopoly. That's why they won't open up the route for AirAsia or other airlines. So competition from a fast railway link would be good for us consumers. And imagine 90 minute from KL Sentral to the heart of Singapore !

Good luck to YTL.

YTL? Sound familiar with Son in Law. :)

Harry will ask us to supply sand and use of air space AGAIN as a condition to penetrate into Singapore!

ROFL. Dispite political dispute, the double-track project is more economy viable and scalable than this one.

It is as stupid as putting Disneyland in JB. Duh, everything is back to the scale of economy. As mum says, "don't wear a hat bigger than your head!".

Didn't we learn enough from Proton?

Oh wait a minute, is this some sort of idea to MAKE IPP(indepent power provider) viable? Since the train will consume LOTS of power. So is YTL going to use the capacity of their IPP to power up the bullet train?

Otherwise, somebody must enlighten me how can bullet train is CHEAPER than a FLIGHT?

Utusan today

The train is going to JB only... since the 'nego' with S'pore is sure as hell takes a lot of time :)

No public funding? YTL’s has been squeezing the Rakyat through LLN through YTL Power (owner of Pakar & Pasr Gudang – 1212 MW largest capacity IPP)

The IPPs derived between eighteen and twenty-five percent internal rate of return (IRR), and unofficial figures estimate the IRR could be as high as 40%.
So they could afford to build the Bullet Train F R E E for A L L Malaysians to us.

auyongtc,

Where did you get the info that MAS is not making money from KUL-SG route? FYI, KL-SG is a code share route dominated by MAS & SIA ONLY. The revenue is shared between both airlines, so are ticket sales!

SO, to correct your statement, YES they are making quiet a bit of money from this route. With such arrangement, If MAS was loosing money, so would SIA!

Thank you.

On the other hand, this high speed rail is about time! Its silly that we have to wait so long for this! I think YTL should go ahead and just do it! I doubt SG will say NO, worst case, End at Causeway. Then not hard to cross over.

moo_t,

Try to visualize this....Currently, the flight between KUL-SG-KUL can set you back RM800++(new fare), inclusive surcharge & tax. It takes you approx 40 mins to fly, 1 hours pre-flight, and 15 minutes post flight(if SG changhi) / 35-40 minutes post flights (If KLIA)

So in total, u spend approx 120 minutes airport to airport. Please factor in another 60 minutes to city. Thats 220 minutes city to city (best case). Now, if i can do it at 90 minutes, charge you 1/3 the cost, wouldnt you take it?

Just to share with you, i recently took a XC200 high speed train from STockholm to Gotteburg which is approx 400KM. The journey was 3 hrs mins, perhaps ave speed of 120-160. They have a flight too, 50 mins across, but ppl still prefer to take train coz the total journey was shorter and teh hassle of going to airport and waiting.

The ticket though caused me a bomb, with 50% discounts, around RM700+ for business class..but then that was sweden, everythinig is expensive!

The train was very comfi and they have wiresless internet for business class travellers with drinks which you can serve yourself.

These are things business travellers would enjoy. Infact, i think if there is one reason why YTL cant do this, is MAS. This will threathen one of MAS/SIA's very profitable route. In fact i can say most profitable. The revenur per-kM for this route is probably higher then any other commercial air fare, with probably exception to provate jets and concordes!

From SG point of view, unless YTL JV with SG compnay, they will NOT agree, that i can say for sure! They protect SIA like a golden child!

Betul ke YTL ni, or adakah ini spin NST? Kata Utusan, hanya ke Johor saja Keretapi Peluru ni ..

NST nak sangat bullet train sampai SIngapore supaya senang pengarang2 tertentu-nya ke republik itu?

Dengar Brendan memang selalu 'pulang' ke Singapura. Betul ke Jeff?

goks is right, I will choose the train even if the price are similar. Do you still remember how small economy class seats are? and all the airport hassles going to the airport in the Jungle (tm)

auyongtc,

One more thing about what you said:
"MAS is still using Airbus A330 and Boeing 737-400 for this route, while SIA is already using Boeing 777-200. Much more spacious and modern. Sigh.."

Well for one, i have plied SG-KUL route many times but yet to see a 737, perhaps i missed them. There is a reason though why SIA plies 777 and stopped using Air bus for SG-KUL. U have to look at SIA's fleet and strategy. They have retired ALL their short haul Air bus fleets (From what i have read), leaving only the 340's for ultra long haul and the upcoming 380's.

SIA has the world largest 777 fleet. Interms of capacity, depending on how the layout is, they can sit about approx. 80 pasengers more then the 330. I dont agree when one says 330 is an aging air craft, but i agree the 777's are newer. I disagree that 777's economy class have more leg room then the 330's leg room.Perhaps this is one's view.

MAS has a limited fleet of 777, which are all long range fleets. SIA's 777 fleet are mediem range.

Question to all..the reason why Boeing came up with 777 is for fuel economy over long range. What ecnomy can one realise on a 40 minute flight running on a 777? I wonder if the SG-KUL was an open market without price fixing, will SIA still use 777 and have the same flight frequencies between KL and SG?

In this sence, i think what MAS is doing in sensible. Use the short and medeum range fleets you have in hand for this. Unless ofcourse MAS has tons of $$$ to buy another 2 dozen 777's?

Raise fund through Global Capital Market? I wonder who are the investors.

Goks, I must remind you to use somoething realistic to justify the fact.

Perhaps the doomed IRIDIUM is the best example about SCALE OF ECONOMY. There isn't "enough" rich people to generate revenue to cover the maintenance cost of the satelite. What make you think there is enough "rich Singaporean/Malaysian" to pay for a skyrocket bullet train fares?

It is totally NAIVE to compare Germany with Malaysia. Germans per capita is aournd US$ 30K, while Malaysian per capita merely reach US$11K. And the population of 82Millions(GEP 30K each) vs Malaysia 25 millions(GEP 11K ), even primary school children can easily see the HUGE GAP.

So please tell me how much YTL should charge for the bullet train? RM1200 per trip. ROFL, if the idea is funded by privates, MAS can easily KILL the train by introducing a low cost flight. Bare in mind that Air Asia is charging RM100++ to Penang. So it is not difficult to make a RM200 no-frail flight.

Oh yes, don't forget that Germans has little worry about FOREX outflow because most of the part can be build locally.

goks,

In reply to your comments on my comment earlier:

- the point on me saying that MAS did not earn as much as SIA on the KUL-SIN sector is purely based on my vague recollection of reading it somewhere, probably during the time of MAS in financial hotsoup. I have no reference (perhaps I'm just lazy to Google it up) on that.

- about the different aircrafts used: I'm merely stating it on the factors of comfort and moderness. This is from me, a customer of both airlines' point-of-view. And about the 737, it's listed on the current MAS flight schedule that they're using this equipment for KUL-SIN-KUL flights together with the A330.

moot_t,

First, i was talking about swedes, not germans :) .
If paying Rm800-900 was so high, why did MAs raise it's fair and SIA in par? Did it stop ppl from travelling? No right...i agree some ppl are re-considering but the volume of business traveller are high, hence we have not seen any reduction in flight from both parties.

Secondly, You have to look beyond you and me going for our annual holiday down south. There is so much other revues to be gained from here, from industries, and light cargo.

Ppl said no one will take ERL to KLIA, but we can only see the number grow. Also, many who are lazy to drive to cyber still take the transit service to cyberjaya! The dont pay the Rm35 per trip but a flat monthly pass which is very affordable.

So right now, you seem to kill this idea because u feel it'll be rocket price and no one will take it. My advice to you is, look at the bigger picture and dont speculate on the cost of service.

If it's priced high, ppl wont take and the demand will drive the price down. At the moment, this is a gold mine economically.

MAS & SIA can reduce fair, but to how much? Fuel prices can only go up, Electricity to a certain extend is much slower in scale as it's buffered by G. Plus, having their own electricty generation plant will give possibilities to YTL to manage their own electricity, in the event G decided to slash the qouta of offering to the national grid.....anything is possible in Malaysia. And this is very realistic, unlike youre wild accusations!

What frustrates me is Malaysians have nothing but contempt on anything malaysia! this to me, is sad and immature!

now everything starts to fit into the big picture...AAB's Level 4 wants to make some big bucks. Level 4 sees this golden opportunity for bullet train service between KUL-SIN. So, YTL being a crony-buddy of Level 4 is a natural candidate as YTL already has experience operating the KLIA Express. YTL also has excess power from it's IPP plant to dispose of. In additon, YTL also need to diversify its business as gas price will inevitably go up in future thus slashing it's IPP operating margin. Therefore the plot to scrap the crooked bridge. First at high speed, the bullet train cannot pass through the crooked half-bridge/ half-causeway. Second, with the half-bridge in place, there will be no more money to skim from the bullet rain deal. And S'pore will also benefit from a likely YTL-Temasek tie-up. So, it's win-win-win for all parties except TDM's crooked bridge...

Tom,

if you check the crooked-bridge design layout, there will one special railway track to connect from Johor with the old-Singapore side causeway plus the track will include one removable-bridge in order to allow ship to pass through.

goks,

- Ever surprise by company like Air Asia? Not difficult for company like MAS to copycat if somebody threaten their rice bowl

- I think you should ask a VIABLE source to get the REAL ERL figures. Bare in mind that there is 2 ERL line, 1 express and 1 convetional. The conventional line that stop between 5 station fetch many times more passenger than the express line. Summary : the figures are bloated. Not every passenger in the statistics taking ERL paying RM35 to KLIA.

- The current IPP still use fuel/gas to generate eletricity.

- You should have answer me the per capita earning viability that justify Sweden/German GOVERNMENT builiding the bullet train.

- Please compare the total passenger of daily KLIA-SG-KLIA transit vs Sweden bullet train passenger number.

agreed with moo_t ...

if plying the ERL is already going to cost not less than RM35 ... and who will want to fly when it is *cheaper* to go to Singapore by train ?

even considering the fact that it is cheaper and time-saving to take a train, does it really benefit all the populace ?

how many times can you go to singapore and what for what purpose at all ?

AS opposed to develop such a waste where probably it will serve the business class better ... the project will DOOM to fail for want of capacity of people that is willing to *zoom* to and fro singapore/KUL ...

the plot is to make sure that no government of malaysia can ever again suggest to open the waterflow of tebrau for ships to pass by.

thus sealing the fate of johor, that it cannot ever compete with singapore, especially when it concerns the port of tanjung pelepas.

don't just look at the face value of the proposal. the price to the development of johor and southern sector of peninsular malaysia is hefty.

just stick to the original plan: build a bridge whether crooked or not that will allow ships to pass under, to and fro the port of tanjung pelepas. that would spell half the doom of singapore as a port nation.

why the need to import kiasuness by the train-loads beats my mind.

to the government: reject the proposal, it does not benefit malaysia in the long run if it's going over the straits.

goks, it looks like many are disagreeing with you, but i say you speak good medicine. a bullet train makes good business sense. but of course it is not meant for the market of small-minded, poor-dad-mentality, fly-to-sg-by-airasia-only masses. afterall, i expect the ticket price to be nearer the rm800 mark than an airasia kind of price.

lsk,
Ever OWN an iridium satelite phone? Isn't it strange that the world with so many RICH dad and Iridium still flopped.

moo_t,

Any product can flop not because of one factor, but possibly many others. Iridium case can be taken as case studies for others pursuing similar ventures eg YTL. Could it be the company has under-estimating the cost, or over-estimating the revenue, we definitely have no idea. In fact it is definitely better to start another Iridium (or better technology) based business now, since many of the 'unknown factors' have been revealed.