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Well, looks like someone is there to back up Loh.

I just hope MCA will stand up against anything that comes from UMNO who thinks they are god in this country, which they are not.!!

It indeed sad to find that Malaysians are no longer tolerant of other peoples' beliefs and views. Mr. Loh, being a responsible MP, has every right to voice his disapproval and views that was deemed to be subversive to certain people.

Looking back at our history books, the syllabus has changed somewhat since. I remembered vividly that in the 70's and early 80's, Malaysian students do study the history of the world and it's different civilisations. It was so much more interesting and there is so much to learn from the civilisations of China , Europe and the Middle East. We even learn of cruel dictators like Hitler etc.

It has been close to 17 years since I last studied history in schools. There was a point whereby our history books was always talking the same thing which was the history of Malacca, the sultanate like Parameswara etc.

Hence, I am least surprised that syllabus has changed again to reflect more islamic values. But don;t the Malaysian govt. realised that there is more than just Islamic civilisation that contributes to the world today? In the ancient times, the Arabs may be known to be great in astrology which made them great seafarers. But at least, other civilisations like the Chinese do not need to look out for the moon each year to determine the time of the year.

Civilisations like the Incas and the Egyptians were equally great as well. Are Malaysian students being taught about it these days?

I could not imagine the type of history my children will be learning from schools one day. Fortunately, we have satelite channels like Discovery and TV IQ which makes history much more enjoyable and meaningful.

When you sign on as a member of any BN constituent parties otehr than UMNO you have unwittingly agreed to be the lapdog of UMNO. You are only allowed to appease and speak highly of UMNO and its ideals. That is how MCA and MIC members and their leaders have been conducting their affairs all this while to maintain the harmony that everyone says is there.

Loh Seng Kok forgot his pledge to UMNO and transgressed their rule of conduct. It is not like as if he is not experienced in licking UMNO ass. After all he did enjoy licking UMNO ass last year when he failed miserabnly to complain about UMNO Youth chief weilding his keris at their perceived enemy, the Malaysian Chinese. What Loh complained about in parliament is nothing new. The history books were already screwed up many years ago. And only now he complains it when for over a decade now kids have been getting As in their SPM for regurgitating nonsense!

Loh should have known better, that the battle for children's minds is fought not by these textbooks and what happens in the classroom. That battle happens at home when non-Malay/Muslim parents tell their kids that rubbish that is in the history books is nothing but that and they can amuse themselves regurgitating all that rubbish to get their As, but never should they believe one bit of it!

"He pledged that MCA Youth would stand by Loh thick and thin as the youth wing concurs with the latter's position. As such, MCA Youth will not allow Loh to face the issue alone".

Great that the MCA Youth is behind Loh on this who is merely bringing up facts and keeping a check on history accuracies of Malaysia. The UMNO Youth is always trying to gag others and forcing/intimidating others races to bow to their whims and fancies. Next they will say the Malaysians are the one that discover America and invented the automobile. LOL.

What happened to the rest of the other component BN parties? Semua diam diam-ke? Are they going to let UMNO Youth get away with these sort of bullying acts? Next it will be their turn. Someone should sue UMNO Youth for criminal intimidation.

Let's be fair. If the MCA Youth has made any unfair statement, then I think it should not only be UMNO Youth protesting against it but also the entire BN. However, if Loh was merely stating facts, then I think the entire BN should slap UMNO Youth for bullying and its uncalled for action against another.

Or,is this another sandiwara by UMNO Youth to garner greater Malay unity and support at the expense of the other races?

MCA Youth will standby Loh , but if the pressure persists, do you think MCA will standby MCA Youth ?

The history text book was altered decades ago, our children never heard of World War II, Gengis Khan and The Boston Tea Party

But don't worry , things will get settled as no one will follows up any issue.

Remember ReNU, Dr Chua.

Hahahaha.

Anything new for news?

Don't people learned that power-craze will make people do anything. As long as the poison groud exist, it can easily breed more than 50 people that will do anything for power(actually money).

Well, with some UMNO members exibiting these type of behaviors and examples, it is no surprise that the UMNO youth member learn up fast with their seniors. Ke mana tumpahnya kuah kalau bukan ke nasi, right? Wonder when some Putera Umno members will catch up?

Come on. How come a request for basic human rights as accorded by our constitution is spun into a racial issue. Is it wrong that we, the other Malaysians only want to learn about our culture, to know our roots, to discover the world from our academics text book? Is it wrong that we, the other Malaysians request that we be granted our rights to our own religions?

But then again, the UMNO youth chief is a full minister in an important portfolio, MCA youth chief - deputy minister in a junior portfolio, MIC youth chief……never mind!!!

UMNO Youth is doing it because they have no other issues to talk about.

It is clear they are doing it just for the publicity i.e. Malay dailies will pick it up and champion them. Typical UMNO Youth blabber and blubber... even their own race will see them for what they are, so no point in giving them more publicity.

Those three issues were created by elements within Umno. Men, not the One Upstairs. Administrative decisions made on the sly, not providential edicts from Him.

So if people like Abdul Halim Samad want to protest that these administrative matters are beyond reproach, they should first show their credentials from Him, then debate why these administrative matters concocted by men cannot be disputed by men. If the issues have been raised in parliament, they should be answered in parliament.

We know we still have problems with hardware. Public transport, for instance. What more software. Passport-chip out of digits, for instance. Now what we see here is worse - a clear indication that a fair and just road to a first-world mentality lies far and unreachable.

So when after half a century you still have problems with hardware let alone software, how can we all achieve developed status without the first-world mentality to link the hardware and software that we still don't have?

Malaysia is a secular state with Islam as the official state religion. Malaysia is not a theocratic Islamic state. Are these reasonable statements? If you think they're reasonable statements reflective of the social compact made by which this nation was forged, then why hijack it in order to assuage your own fears that result in the belittling of others not of your limited purviews?

Nobody disputes that our history books should reflect one aspect of world history or local history that western books ofte tend to neglect. But in the same vein, world or local history is not only predominantly made of Islamic civilisational matters. Neither is ethics the exclusive domain of muslims. Try reading GE Moore's On Ethics, as appetizer, for example. Umno sends its children to Moore's Cambridge at expense of the public, mostly from taxes paid by people like Loh, to learn the thoughts of the world, while at home it restricts the minds of young boys and girls to a purview that has been politically circumscribed. If you didn't think of that, then what were you thinking when submitting the demand letter?

Without belabouring the point, the same principle applies to the other two issues. No need to elaborate.

The Malay race is going to be made irrelevant to the world because elements within Umno, and one is not saying all of them, continue to think they're custodians of something that needs knee-jerk defending each time something rears up. Are they clear in their heads and hearts on what they're doing? Instead of trying to hold onto a maginot line that's being breached on all sides by global forces, they should start to brainstorm how to embrace the changes and turn them into something modern-day children, not just of their own race, can live with, find new equilibrium in, coexist with, thrive, survive and reengineer from.

We look at the children today and can lament how bright energetic minds are being stifled by so much regressive policies that rent asunder their educational paths.

It's all man-made. Made by men and women who don't have a friggin' inkling what the world of real knowledge out there contains. And they're the ones who arrogate to themselves the custodianship of national mental growth and spiritual enlightenment. How can?

Here's something else to think about. Our SPM has made made easier than the O-Levels, but our STPM remains more difficult and wider than the A-Levels. Taking this warpage, construct the trajectory of admission-denied students in local universities on basis of their performance in STPM.

Now I realised one doesn't have to turn back the clock or doesn't need a time machine to change the history.

This must be a great break-through! Wow! Believe it or not, Ripley, we have something for you!

Have I misssed something?

So far, I do not seem to have come across ANY statement of support from Ong Ka Ting, as MCA president, for Loh, and disgust/protest over the Kelana Jaya UMNO division act of hooliganism and intimdation.

Ditto for Hishammuddin in his capacity as UMNO Youth head. But then again, he is the same chap who waved that hugh keris so menancingly, so...

Ditto for Khairy in his capacity as Deputy UMNO Youth head.

Ditto for the PM and the DPM.

There is some room to make use of off-the-record discussion and settlement of sensitive issues within the BN, but the Kelana Jaya UMNO action is too wrong for all the silence.

The leaders mentioned above must make their stand public to quell rising disquiet amongst malaysians of all races, including many Malays I think.

The threatening actions carried out by the uncouth hooligans seriously jeopardises the spirit of muhibbah, and must be addressed properly, not swept under the proverbial carpet.

In general, most of the students are examination orientated. The controls of such knowledge and the shoving of one particular knowledge will only control the students until they finish SPM. Who's who khalifah means crap to them when they come out and entering tertiery level of education and later come to work.

Like thomas said, we still have other media that we can depended on.

With such a barbaric action, I knew there will not be a discussion. Barbarians don't discuss (is it true? I don't know, I only study Islamic civilisation and dunno about others...pls pardon me). So you can start teaching your kids who is the first tyranny emperor of China and let them know the MAIN REASON he burned all the books and killed all the scholars of Confucius.

Quoted: "Here's something else to think about. Our SPM has made made easier than the O-Levels, but our STPM remains more difficult and wider than the A-Levels. Taking this warpage, construct the trajectory of admission-denied students in local universities on basis of their performance in STPM."

Neil, that's a good one.

UMNO Youth is giving me bad vibes. It gives me uncomfortable signals:

• Self-righteous stance
• Antagonistic behaviour
• Bullying antics

I used to get such signals from PAS. Guess UMNO Youth is trying to outdo PAS, or wanting to remodel itself.

If PAS is smart, it should change tactics.

I cant agree more Niel, well said.

However, the statement of Malaysia being a secular & islamic is a contradiction itself.

If you have noticed the bullying tactics, you might wonder if is this politics or something else.

Well, its politics, but its shaping from a religious control formulae.

Dhimmitude is a concept in shariah that basically allows islamic power to 'bully' other faiths. Im shocked to find out about this but after further reading, It seems 'right' for them to bully.

Im sorry to say that these guys will be blinded by this concept where whats right wont be defended.

tjwork,

Thanks for the word Dhimmitude. Truly shocking. As a non-muslim, I never know I'm that low...

See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhimmitude

The concept of Dhimmitude is pretty well-known in the west, we have first hand experience over here...in fact there is a website which tracks glaring instances of Dhimmitude which occurs worldwide...

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/

Dear tjwork and beefstew,

What you said about the supposed "Dhimmi and Dhimmitude" in Islam is wrong... Even wikipedia admitted that the site explaining Dhimmi is disputable... The author was biased and the whole content was to incite more hatred towards Moslems....

During the era of Moslem occupation (and other civilisations occupied too..), non-moslems has to pay jizyah because moslem pay zakat to the baitul mal. This revenue was used for the benefit of all moslems and non-moslems alike...

Our problem is with BN politicians.... So please stop using the word dhimmitude or its status... I'm surprised because as a moslem, this is the first time I heard of such definition... The dhimmi that we understood are those who are friendly with Moslems, while the harbi are those who openly declare to be the enemy of islam and execute strategy to attack Islam, to demolish moslems......

Malaysia needs more Loh Seng Kok.

I am amused by the MCA'Youth gallant stand against the big-bully of the Kelana Jaya UMNO's branch of the protest note with regard to the history textbooks and also about the places of worship among the non-Malays.Syabas to him for his bravery in voicing out without fear or favour but I believe UMNO's Youth would not let it go away like that.

Ummu,

I didn't say anything at all. To me it's just shocking. Disputable. Yes. But what do you think? The pages touches so many areas and you clarify only on tax. Anything you would like to share? There is no hatred when you understand the nature of it.

Anyway, these issue that had happened for quite a while and now MCA Youth finally came out ONLY when one guy willing to come out and say something.

Sandiwara! Semuanya snadiwara! Absolute sandiwara! Nothing but sandiwara!

Are things going to change?

the way umno youth behaves is gangsterism..nothing more.

If that guy got balls..he should confront Loh one to one..no need to use a mob.

If Umno youth betul garang..go and score on bigger things like corruption, incest etc etc.

idiots..real idiots

Wow.... a spine....

I understand Parliamentarians are protected by law of any charges esp. when debating on any issues inside the Parliament.They are immuned and you could not sue them on any account inside the Parliament.

in this globalised and open-competition era,

many of those KAMPONGfolks-mentality dudes still exist,
Amazing Bolehland!

nch:
Not true. There are exceptions to Parliamentary immunity in Malaysia. See Wikipedia.

I think what Ummu clarified about Islamic practices is worth listening to.

But is also true that in the present day world, many religions, and not just Islam, have been made used of by various people, twisted and corrupted in order to further their own goals.

Bush and his claim of Divine direction - "God told me to invade Iraq" comes to mind.

Indeed, in my own experience, I have been disgusted too many times by people who proclaim "God told me ...", only to be found, when challenged in detail, to have added that Divine stamp of authority themselves to various ideas and statements which they themselves came up with.

Some I figured were simple minded folks who aped some of those glitzy and charismatic preachers so well marketed by some outfits. Others may have been crafty conmen, to be blunt.

There is, unfortunately, a lot of truth in the Dhimmitude claims. Not that the Dhimmitude practices reflect true Islamic teaching, but rather what some people have done using Islam as the excuse.

In the local context, it is disturning how Islam has been used to support certain actions. Look at the way the tudung issue - in schools, in the police force - has been argued by many. Including the IGP.

So it is not just politicans, much less BN politicans. I think there are many who have perverted religions, including Islam, and made use of it. Others may not have an adequate understanding of a religion, but still acted as if they did anyway.

Under Article 63 of Malaysia Constitution, MPs are immune from any prosecution on his/her parliamentary speeches.

UMNO Youth should be arrest and charged under harrasment to MP pertaining to their mis-behavior and vulgar.

Malaysia is not UMNO. If you don't like Malaysia, please get out of Malaysia. Malaysia is for ALL Malaysians.

http://www.jpapencen.gov.my/CAT289562/Published/perkara63-Ma.Html

Dear Umnu, I appreciate your comment. And like other malay friends, they expressed shock over these articles. I have no intention to offend you but at the same time I question myself Why has this Bullying happen. We have not done anything wrong & being subjected the ways complained/said by non-malays/muslims. So allow me to clarify the similarities.

I have researched many many articles & could safely say from my study, the Dhimmi that you know is textbook knowledge and while its the true definition, it was not intrepreted that way. I urge you to do your own reading & justify it yourself. If I am wrong, feel free to correct me.

I would feel its not entirely true to compare with that term as it has a loose meaning but only the concept of it which empowers some quarters do what we collectively called bullying.

I take a simple example from beefstew's link & compare it with whats happening in Malaysia. Il let you be the judge. Although this article is disputable, it provides a baseline for a discusion.

Points from Status of Dhimmis from Wikipedia:

#Freedom of religion & forced conversions.
"The pledge of protection granted dhimmis the freedom to practice their religion and spared them forced conversions"

Yes, Malaysia grants the freedom of religion & the Rukun Negara clearly states that One Must believe in God to be a Rukun Negara Abiding Malaysian.

#Rituals
"..they were obliged to do so in a manner not conspicuous to Muslims.."

Yes, Ever saw any new churches being built like a church & see many temples where the surrounding coicidentally has large billboards to cover it. Ask people from ipoh about some sensitive stories about religious places & their loud speakers. Also, Miri has an interesting story.

#Places of worship
I have no proof to state here. Only rumours.

#Taxation
Taxes are paid in a different way, but this time, there was no guarenteed way to know that the amount benefits the non-muslims the way zakat benefits them. Other words, theres no structured way to channel this fund or worse, no transparency.

#Prohibition on Testimony
Shariah court. You tell me.

#Punishment for the murder of a dhimmi
If we were to compare this, we are actually back to the jahilah age, il skip this.

#Humiliaion of dhimmis
No, Humilation is on the eyes on the victim, it takes guts to admit being humiliated & I sure some of us have a fair share. This is purely a personal event. Humiliation could trigger an offending stem & if one feels offended, he / she was probably humiliated first.

Some may be offended or humiliated by the actions of some polititions but you were right, its only a few people with power doing this.

Also, some may be humilated by universities admissions, business & civil policies. Do you know how hard is it for a non-muslim to study? They are kids for god sake.

#Distinctive cloting
Again, Jahil age if to compare.

#Riding (horse, donkey)
Jahil, jahil, jahil.

#Marriage
"Islamic jurists reject the possibility that a dhimmi man may marry a Muslim woman. As some scholars put it, marriage is like enslavement, with the husband being the master and the wife being the slave. Even as dhimmis are prohibited from having Muslim slaves, so are dhimmi men not allowed to have Muslim wives. Following the same logic, Muslim men were allowed to marry dhimmi women because the enslavement of non-Muslims by Muslims is allowed."

So in other words, A non-muslim must be a muslim to marry a muslim guy/girl.

However, this contradicts with a muslim guy being able to marry a non-muslim girl.

#Personal Freedom
Do you think Loh Seng Kok had a good night sleep?

--

Dearest Umnu, I trust in you that you have a broad mind as i cant fit a 3 by 5 idea to a 2 by 4 mind. Try wearing to our shoes for a moment.

To say Malaysia as a Islamic & Secular from the events that happens will not be accurate. It seems that it is choosing sides from the past events & eventually fall into one direction. While we are not living 1000 years ago, the same things happen but in another form.

To me, this is not a perfect country. However, I dont want this country to become another Afganistan or Iraq & as my loyalty lies with my king & country I believe its my duty to voice out before our children inherits rubbish.

JEFF OOI says: Hold your horses folks. You guys have drifted frommy blog context. Is this is an attempt to hijack my blog topic? Subsequent posting on things not directly related to this blog topic will go to junk.

I would really love to see what our malay friends would think of UMNO's action.
Was he wrong doing so ? Was UMNO's action a reflection of what the majority of malay believes too ? It's really disturbing, speaking of living in harmony...

Everytime someone question the government for doing something behind the backs of the people who voted them..they were served with almost a summon especially when it borders to religious freedom

But when they critisize others, they can freely do it on the media, newspaper and tv..

Intimidation tactics and threats...almost like Taliban.

Must make a note not to vote them come next election. For now gotta fight back by blogging it..
More exposure...more protest.

At least we tried.

No need to answer the letter-lah, just ignore it. You didn't do anything wrong, Mr Loh.

Hi Jeff, I suppose that post was out of topic.

While I have no intention to hijack your blog, I was olny expressing my views to Umnu, please take my post off.

Thanks.

"In his speech, Loh complained about ‘imbalanced’ history textbooks, new prayer recital guidelines and the problems faced by non-Muslims with regards to places of worship. He said the syllabus of history textbooks ignored the contribution of non-bumiputeras and only emphasised on the Islamic civilisation."

Just because of doing the above and he gets visited by a gang of people who illegally gathered in front of his house ? Come on lah. What fear did Loh put into you guys that send a shiver through your spine and caused you all to loose your energy resulting in the desperate need of a GROUP of people to carry JUST A PIECE of paper to him?

Besides that, what is the POLICE doing about this Illegal gathering? Nothing - Cause no one reported? Oh I heard of that answer before.

I called it the attack of the Vikings!

If these kind of issues can't be discussed in parliament, out of all the places, then you tell me.

The problem the politicians of today is that they do not know the problem. We are drifting again. The medicine that was prescribed since the Mid-term review of the 3rd Malaysia Plan is now being given for the 9th Malaysia Plan. The efficacy of the medicine has long expired. It is no longer effective. The disease continues to spread and it is becoming blatant.The Government is trying to put the old wine
in new bottle. What should be prescribed should be a policy not based on affirmative action but rather on haves and have-nots. After all, are we a nation of strangers or are we a nation that over the years the government has divided the society into racial fragmentation.

Yes, MP Loh has said his piece and he is reflecting the actual situation in schools. National schools are places for integration and not schools for assimilation. I doubt very much that policy makers do not know what is happening in the schools. The national schools are secular schools and not religious schools. The national schools are for all the children of the country and therefore, the running of these schools must be based on the broad principle of national integration.

The study of history is to understand the past. And it should not be lopsided devoting more than half for Islamic civilization. Yes, it is important to know the Islmaic civilization and it is equally important that the pupils should also know that there are other relevant civilization and a world view of the study of history must take place. Otherwise, we will be like frog in a well and when it looks up the sky it will think that the sky is only the size of the mouth of the well! We want our children to know the happenings in the world so that they are more knowledgeable. We cannot pretend that other histories do not exist. By being lopsided it gives rise to the feelings that the schools system is going on the basis of assimilation and that also explains why 94% of chinese students enrolled elsewhere for their education.

What has happened to institutions like the VI, MBS, St Johns, Anderson,St Michael, English College, Sultan Badlishah,Penang Free and similar schools. Those of us who had gone through these institutions had our moments of fun and fight and yet we learned to be very tolerant! Why can't we have this knid of spirit.

Parliament is an august chamber to reflect the views and arguments for the better of the country and therefore, there must be broaded-mindness to understand and work out the best solutions for the country, rather then threatening your own MPs who are all are performing their duties!

MP Loh, you are not alone, go read the hansards of yesteryears and see for yourself, the year in and the year out where the same problems are being brought up. That's why I said at the beginning the problem is that politicians do not understand the problem!

MCA Youth is showing it has balls... finally