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I have to agree with Dr. M this time. We should build our part of the bridge.

Btw, Badawi says that he has taken the Johorian views on Singapore's demands on sand and use of airspace in making his decision.

I dont remember the Government asking for Johorian's views/feedback 2 months ago when Singapore made such demand.

The Government simply made an assumption that the Johorian oppose to the sand and use of airspace demand. I strongly believe Johorian would enter negotiation rather than cancelling the bridge.

I want the brige to be built... lets negotiate again... who is with me? Anyone??? Can we have an online poll??? Let me try to set one up...

It is just a matter of time the causeway has to be replaced. This time we bowed down so easily and we lost (everybody in the world know that, you can tell and say whatever you want).

Looking at what TDM and his ex-political secretary have said, i am on their side this time. Once again this shows incompetent and weak administration running the country.

Oh yes, Melaka wants a bridge now too... hahahaha..

yeah, yeah, right,
who was that dumb head that gave one's land away.

look at china, treating taiwan and hongkong.

While I agree whole -heartedly that Malaysia should NEVER kow-tow to the bullying tactics of Singapore, be it asking [demanding?] for hugh amounts of sand or right to Malaysian airspace intrusions, Dr M is not someone I can support. Nor can I find much good to say about his schemes and ways.

So while I am very much for standing up to Singapore, it is apparent that building the bridge is worse.

And Matthias Chang's complaint about the "Mike Tyson-Holyfield" style display is not worthy of serious consideration. Even more so when during Dr M's regime, there were worse things done by the Barisan controlled mainstream papers to portray certain angles, spins and slants.

Paraphrasing a saying,

He who lived in a glass house should not start throwing stones now.

And while Dr M did make Syed Hamid the FM in his time, it was Pak Lah who named Hamid the CURRENT Foreign Minister. The historical information does not count leh...

The whole incident showed that the Malaysian government is a bad poker player. Singapore called our bluff and we lost. The tide is now on Singapore's side but wait till 2061 when the Lee's are all gone and we can then sit on the table and discuss about the water issue on equal terms. Don't know whether I will live that long but I hope that who ever is in charge won't make stupid judgements by selling raw water @ 3cents?

Jeff - ballistic? Thou art too kind.

Desi's DECODE cun? Kingly wan -- some1 is carrying another's BALLS, cos his ain't heavy enuf!
Now raising Cats' meow at hi desibels: "KennySia, can bollow yours or knot?"

On NST's Face-Off display Desi as a Nudesman speaking, "IT's A COUP!" What has Dr Mahathir's rekod as ex-PM and his appointee of Foreign Minister Syed Hamid (extended by Pak Lah2) got to media-play? With my 25 years + record, I gas I am king enuf compared with Mathhias C, NO?"

I won't venture into LAW terrortry -- that's UP Matghhia's alley; I'm only UP cats' alley. Also mousey-lah.

Did you guys notice Genting shares inching its way up ever since Badawi called off the bridge? Conspiracy theory...trade off bridge for Genting succeeding in its bid for Singapore Casino!!!... On the balance of benefits Malaysia we might just be about equal....for the short term at least.

Anyway, its surprising how quickly Mahathir forgets..three years isn't a long time when the press was muffled, and you he only had nodding puppets for a cabinet and did he even know that he had a population that he served? More like ruled over maybe.

However, I support his stand that Malasyia should not have kow towed to Singapore. And now hat we have that lettter of Goh Chok Tong signalling acceptance for the bridge before sand became an issue I really cannot understand why now the cancellation. Of course Singapore can always take the next 600 years to find out what its balance of benefits is going to be and we can all wait till then before we build a bridge! When its to their advantage, they will keep talking to the cows come home. It looks like ever since 1965 Singapore has never stooped to Malaysia's request for anything and when we go to them with anything, it gets talked about till our chief negotiator retires and the next one has got to start from the begining...and it goes on forever like that. Maybe someone can tabulate our various dialoges with Singapore over whatever issues that remain outstanding so that we can see what really happens. AFter all they have sen fit to publish confidential letters to show us in a bad light. So why can't we?

In my opinion, canceling a project is NOT the way to solve the ONE problem that had been identified, i.e. The Causeway needs to be upgraded. Both Singapore and Malaysia had grown so much in the last 30-40 years. Flow of traffics flows, people and trade had all grown many folds. Johore Bahru is no longer a small town begging the mercy of others to drop by. It is a vibrant and very prosperous city.

Hence, how can we let the Causeway remains as it is today :- Ugly, congested and sea water gathered around it has no life. Not to mention the water front at the vicinity of the Causeway, i.e. not much to see. If the super competent and caring Singaporeans really care about all these, I think they would have taken the initiative to expand the Causeway to benefits their northern neighbor which had contributed so much to their well being.

Things can be improved. Things must be improved. We must make that happen. How ? That is the million dollars question. There are many alternatives:- A relatively cheap way, maybe, is to expand and beautify the Causeway. But then wonder our very well known, very rich BUT “very ugly, very selfish, very super-supreme-extremely-kiasu” neighbor is willing to cooperate just to solve this ONE and SIMPLE problem ? And please lah NOT to drag in other unrelated “great-great-grandmother” problems like water, sand, airspace and what not complicated story... “Problem solving skill 101” :- Never lump or bring up unrelated complicated “nenek moyang - grandfather” story to an existing simple problem. Else it will be stagnant and the problem remains unsolved.

Solving one problem at a time, JB will become better. Improving one city at a time, Malaysia will become better.

TM should just shuddup!
But he cannot because his pride is hurt twice - once the railway to Kunming project and than this one. Knowing him he is a fighter cock. But he should stop this instance because he should have voiced up loud when the negotiation was going on. Why bring up the GCT letter now. Why not earlier if he was really concern? No he was concern for his own pride and probably the promises he made to the contractor of the bridge or whatever.
The bridge do not need to be build now. Why make it easy to get to Singapore? For what? Malaysia cannot compete by itself-meh? Are we so dependent on Singapore now and future? What Malaysia need to do is make itself more competitive than to argue over a bridge? The Singaporean are laughing their heads off.
As for TM he should be advising how to progress the country not every time challenging everybody when all his pet projects get thrown out of the windows. Man, he is a real sore loser!!!
What he thinks he did whilst in office will bring thru 2020 is again like "the emperor and his new clothes".
He has done more bad than good! Look at all the mess he left behind. Now he is shouting he was not given the press coverage. Like ular with fork-tongue!

In my opinion there's no sovereignty loss here. Malaysia can still build hundreds of crooked bridges towards Singapore if it wants to. It depends how far into the causeway it is building.
This is an excuse used to lambast at Pak Lah otherwise what else?

ROFL. M.C. is damn hilarous.
He must be kidding about decision making part of ANY Bolehland minister. Doing THAT(making decision), will cost the minister job and $,$$$,$$$.

Clue for the facts? Ever wonder minor issue under those ministry always need "cabinet attentions" and "Prime minister decisions"?

err.. so what's the situation now? why all of sudden TM's man with all his documents, why didn't he shows up before? aiya..i am confused la.. to built or not to built.. pening!

There is something "positive" in Mathias Chang's outburst and challenge to the Foreign Minister. Could you have imagined a scene such as this in the last PM's era? An ordinary citizen of Chinese origin challenging a top Malay Minister from an illustrious lineage? Unimagineable then. Today, a reality.

I think a big 'thank you' is due to our neighbouring country for their suoerb handling of that half-baked idea we call, astute economic policy. Someone posted an article by Raja Petra yesterday in which we were informed of more nasty details regarding USA's fly-over rights. Then, there's the mystery of why ASEAN's Zone of Peace, Freedom and Neutrality, hitherto sacrosanct, has now been abrogated by the son of the man who conceived ZOPFAN. (Is it me,or was DPM the loudest cheerleader for the 'bridge'?)

Whatever. We got soundly thrashed by the little fella, and he didn't even have to shout. What galls me is how a once fine nation(and the beacon for all newly-independent nations) could, in the space of 25 years, become a little tinpot Third World Asian basketcase.

Now we know, we really should set out to dump those cloth-heade muppets and put a sentient being in charge.

Splendid point, Kene. Perhaps you could help me. I'm doing the crossword and I'm looking for a four-letter word beginning in C and ending in P. Clue: The Ides of March.

General Douglas Macarthur said upon retiring: 'Old soldiers never die, they just fade away'
TM said upon retiring: 'Watch your back because I'm definately watching you'
General Douglas Macarthur said during WWII: 'I shall return' (to liberate the Phillipines)
TM said: 'You'll think I never left'

It is just funny, this whole thing. Funnier are those blind zombie, with so-called "national pride" imprinted on their eyes and blinded them, while being whipped up into frenzy by this old-man.

billions for a half bridge? crooked bridge or scenic bridge? because of what? national pride? Dont get blinded by TM's hidden agenda. Like AAB said its much well spent on those that are living hand-to-mouth.

Beside, once the half bridge is up, it dont solve any problem. It will be useless and You will make malaysia looks like the aggressor and make us looks like a fool. And you talk about pride?

He has his hidden agenda. By reacting to his antics, u are playing right into his hand. Lets just leave "his" chapter in history.

we can never win against singapore. They have so many Malaysian quitters amongst their ranks that it is like fighting your own self. The proposed bridge was badly planned straight or otherwise and should be scrapped. And as for Mathias Chang, wasn't he appointed to Dr. M's office as an advisor to chinese affairs, thereby neglecting MCA as a partner?? Dr. M was so out of touch with his own countrymen that he had to appoint, much like the British did, an advisor to assist him.
Badawi should have considered Dr. M as the bridge negotiator as in proton and petronas advisor. Then He will have more time to do many positive things to the country and let the oprevious administration sort out the mess they have created.

Come on. The retired old man should shut up. Pak Lah can’t perform well if TDM keeps on pulling his leg when his cabinet makes a decision. The decision of not building the bridge is concurrently agreed by the cabinet and is reassured by Pak Lah that it is a correct decision which some of us agree too. Why can’t we let this decision to be tested over the time as it needs time to assess? Whatever the cabinet says carries responsibility whereas TDM’s airy fairy talk carries nothing. Many cabinet decisions of the past TDM proved damaging to the whole generation like the corruption culture and educational policy.

A heavy downpour yesterday flooded the whole JB, the cowboy town. What is the use of building a first class bridge, straight or crooked whatever leading to a third class cowboy town. I would suggest money to be well spent to the improvement of the township so that people of JB would not suffer. By putting the cart before the horse and not the other way round seems to be working habit of our past government. Pak Lah inherits all these including Syed Hamid. Let Pak Lah have a chance to sort out all this mess which was built up from the past twenty two years.

xxx

http://www.bakrimusa.com/archives/an-education-system-worthy-of-malaysia-14#comments

http://authenticgeek.blogspot.com/2006/02/what-makes-you-think-he-can-remove.html

http://perspectives.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=53303&forum_id=89

xxx

You should never try to bridge Dr.M,Tengku,Pak Lah and Thaksin (Shinawatra or more appropriately, "sediwara"). The result could be more disastrous than trying to built the "scenic" bridge .

The Tengku was very much the product of his time:"Slowly ,joyfully goes the lucky" ,type, plus a gift of strong leadership and intuitive wisdom.

Mahathir has the strongest gift of the analytical mind,penetrating observation,ability to simplify and compress complex ideas and present them in a simple layman's language.An astounding exponent of benevolent dictatorship. and also its very most accomplished practitioner around.

Pak Lah is a very well brought up mother's pet who is truthful ,obedient ,god fearing and fair.Whatever he is deficient in terms of sharpness and profundity of the mind ,he more than compensate by his coolness and embracement of participative management.

Thaksin ,once a great admirer of Dr.M has some degree of Dr.M's adroitness plus the craftiness of a fox.A master puppeteer and a consummate classical opera artist.

Thailand therefore is in for a protracted political instability.As regards Malaysia, I believe that the dust will settle soon as it has always has been after a tropical storm in the tea cup.

I think we shouldn't be too kiasu regarding this.I agree with Tun. The plan for the crooked bridge should continue. Whether it will cause bottleneck traffic in Singapore or not is their problem. A crooked bridge means crooked water pipes. Since Singapore is paying "too much" for our water, maybe we can delay the supply of the water during construction with the reason being crooked pipes are difficult to construct. Maybe they should also look at the possibilities of having an underwater tunnel just like the one in Paris. Oh ya I forgot, they have their submarines and US missiles pointing at us down there. Back to plan A.

I think the people should ask Mahathir what he wants AAB to do now. Ask for his resignation or resume the crooked bridge project or sack Syed Hamid? Somebody must fall, is it?????

let's look at this objectively

according to Matthias, the sand issue was never brought into question. If so, does that mean earlier negotiations actually included the use of our airspace?

also, I do not presume to think that Pak Lah is getting bad advice, because that would mean that Tun Mahathir was taking bad advice as well, seeing as how the cabinet shuffle was more like a solitaire game, simply rearranging the cards into separate places while maintaining the rest...

however, i find it unnerving that an ex-PM finds it his responsibility to voice out his opinions through the media and ex-political secretary, for each major issue in Malaysia.

Tun M, it is time to let go, just seeing how Mahaleel stooged you on the Proton issue should have been a hint. No disrespect, of course. The media is partly to blame. If they care so much, they should offer Dr. M a column in their paper...heck, they gave Marina one..

Also, I do not think we should listen to a business tycoon, who perhaps, has put the nation into a capitalist whirlpool, while ignoring the development of his countries South....

I have nothing but respect for Matthias Chang, seeing as how I agree with his thoughts, as published in his books. However, blaming a minister for bungling a deal that was discussed in parliament, would that not have been a collective decision, and by that, the voice of the represented people of the people?

Finally, we are asking to build a bridge with a mutual advantage for both countries. Why is Singapore asking for the air that we breathe and the land beneath our feet? (kinda literal here)

Why are they frequently trying to change a win-win situation into a lose-win situation?

Answer: Selfishness and pride.

Dear neighbours, please, get over it...

This is a bit nasty from me! The whole issue is carrying "Somebody Balls".... right? who dares against TM those days and Who dares agaist PM today?

To me the "Daulat" (so call curse) - to TM when he change the "Perlembagaan" Hope everybody remember ! I do agree everybody including opposition support his agenda throught press.... and now... today "Padan Muka to Us"

at last,
democracy is thriving now, once again.
everyone can speak up now, freely!
(tho i don't like TM lousy track records)

There is a divide among M'sian community.
Most ppl in Klang Valley and above are SENTIMENTAL on this issue.Thanks to recalcitrant for linking the issue with sovereignty,honour,surrender and all kinds of nonsense threatening words.
Ppl in the south are more RATIONAL and most of them opposed to build such a crooked bridge as they know the main cause of JB's traffic congestion are efficiency of immigration officers,number of counters at checkpoint,lousy public transportation and under utilised expensive second link.

This is a great example whereby knowledge is power. Matthias challenges hamid because he knows the facts inside out and co-draft the 14 volumes of document. A monumental task considering there are many many national and international issues to consider let alone negotiate. I don’t think hamid is in matthias’s league to debate this.

though its tempting to say KJ has a hand in this, that would be just hunch with no substance. But I’ve got a funny feeling that its not hamid’s fault entirely.

I support Dr Mahathir in thios issue , and I do think he is right. Malaysia has sold herself! Jual maruah bangsa...really malu!!!

National sovereignity, my foot !

On the bridge issue, it was TDM who dug himself a grave with Singapore chipping in the wreaths.

As as April 19, 2006 11:28 PM, i observed all the comments and came out with this summary:

YES to the construction of the bridge (11): hedonism, joejak, kenDO, Leithaisor, Ah Beng, Observer, Chong318, nematode, zaryl, aput83, nicky

NO to the construction of the bridge (4): concern-lah, megahyper, sydput, Kingkong

NEUTRAL (11): desiderata, nhm, Kene, moo_t, Mithos, vokoyo, Suria Kenchana, bmart333, teh-o, polis, mikewang

Sorry folks, I can't find a website that hosts online voting without having to link to a website...

A thousand apologies if your codename appears in the wrong category.

Why nobody in Bolehland call a referendum whether to set up an independent commission or not.A truly independent commission that given a mandate to launch a thorough investigation on recalcitrant's past track records over his 22 years as PM.
I am sure that majority in Bolehland are very keen to know was there any malpractices,abuses,corruptions and all the sh*ts.How much the amount involved and whos were involved.

personally i don't have a lot of admiration of Tun M for various sentiments ...

however, I have to agreed with the dear Tun M and Matthias Chang this time, WTF is the current administration doing ?

If Matthias Chang can come up with such proof/intent by the then PM of Singapore of the intention and will to replace the entire bridge ... how come we get the NST spin doctoring early March 2006 about the crooked-bridge and the sudden about turn to scrap the project ???

WTF is the current government doing anyway ?

I am confused. If the former premier of Singapore had already agreed to the construction of a full bridge in 2002 without involving other issues (airspace & water), why wasn't the project carried out immediately? Also, why was the contract awarded before the confirmation of the project? And, why did the government agree on such a ridiculous contract that only benefitted the contractor?

I am indifferent about the issue of whether or not the bridge should be built, but I just can't stand the fact that huge amounts of the taxpayer's money would be used to compensate the contractor for a non-existent bridge.

I know it might seem that it was a blunder on the government's side but I don't believe that for one second. Short-sightedness and selfishness have prevailed!

I just wish that for once decisions are made in the best interest of the ppl instead of certain individuals.

i would like to clarify to the honorable hedonism that my stand is against the building of the bridge.

if singapore insists on demanding such ridiculous one-sided terms, there isn't a bridge long enough to cross our neighbours gaping chasm of arrogance

hedonism,
No one in their right frame of mind wouldn't want a bridge to replace the causeway. Knowing what good it can do to the ecological systems of the water in the Johor Straits, only people with an unsound mind would not want the bridge.
But the problem is, there are too many ridiculous strings attached by S'pore before they are to agree to building the bridge. Selfishness rules in their mind. If only they could put this aside, citizens from both side of the causeway could enjoy a beautiful view like the Sydney harbour bridge.

YgArif,

“ ------only people with an unsound mind would not want the bridge.-----“

Perhaps it is more appropriate to rephrase your sentence as follows:-

Only people with an unsound mind would want a crooked bridge leading to no way.

spaceman.... You are right man......!!!! Now we don't know "Siapa Cakap Betul...& Siapa Cakap Salah"...

No wonder latest recent "Trust Survey" Politician Rank Lowest!

There are three generations in my family. We vote in favour of the bridge. We vote to begin to build the bridge on our side.

The people of Singapore have to change their kiasu and selfish attitide or they will pay the price.

The people in this country who are pro-Singapore, who act as agents for Singapore, who are rewarded by Singapore -
be mindful of the consequences.

Setting aside all the emotions, the fact of the matter is an alternative link between the two nations has to be constructed sooner or later. The present causeway cannot continue to cope with the ever increasing traffic flow and JB cannot continue to sustain the ever increasing and maddening traffic congestions. Widening the causeway is not the solution. The attending issues like the water pipes and the cables have to be resolved by both party somehow. The question of who win or who lose is a non-issue, that's just another kiasu mentality, be it Singaporean or Malaysian.

The bridge is a good idea in the long run. I'm all for it, my only concern is the price tag. I think it could be done a lot cheaper.

Building a crooked bridge is a crazy idea on the first place. I personally think it shouldn't be conceived at all.

Ask yourself this question, what is the purpose of building a bridge? Does it solve your problem by having a crooked bridge.

On the national pride/sovereignty, agreed M'sia should not bow down. Does it mean that we have bowed if we decide not to continue with the crooked bridge?

If we can't have a straight bridge, let's just keep the causeway.

Remember, a bridge between two countries should signify a bond for posterity. It should not stand for anything less.

Whatever it is; the crooked-recently-renamed-scenic bridge will be a Malaysia's biggest folly if built. A testament of cutting one's nose to spite one's face.

Conceived during TM's days just like the Augusta fiasco, and he and his friends are still defending them and their justifications.

AAB is in an uneviable position. A relatively light weight like him being attacked by a sniping cunning TM.

Altho I am no fan of AAB, really kesian him for he has no friends of similar caliber to back him.

His bloated cabinet? Like him, they are mostly owes TM favours.

//citizens from both side of the causeway could enjoy a beautiful view like the Sydney harbour bridge.//
What so called beautiful view are so enjoyable at the costs of our wallets? Rather not,i won't mind to pay much much more at Harbour Bridge if i want to enjoy true scenic.

//The people in this country who are pro-Singapore, who act as agents for Singapore, who are rewarded by Singapore -
be mindful of the consequences.//
Sounds familiar,is it the same version that UMNO youth loves very much?

I was told there is...at the bluehyppo forum...look at the General Discussion thread...at www.malaysianidol.com.my.

I was wondering who Gerbang Perdana is - the contractor for the bridge. Googled a bit & tracked the 60% shareholder to Datuk Yahya A. Jalil. Guess what his political affiliation is ... Have a look at this webpage.

http://dppnjohor.blogspot.com/2006/03/sikap-datuk-yahya-jalil-sangat-dipuji.html

I'm confused. Can someone pick up the scent from here ?

A Johorean here.

If we're not going to have a straight bridge, it's best not to have one at all. A crooked bridge would in fact introduce complexities that we'd have to endure in the coming years.

I'll all for a bridge. A straight one.

Or we could dig through beneath the causeway (Like Shredder in Ninja Turtles) and be done with it.