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But we have already built the new Customs, Immigration and Quarantine (CIQ) complex in Johor Baru for the proposed new bridge.

Now the project has been terminated abruptly, what happens to the CIQ ? Samy propose to build another overpass, is it worth to pursuit further anymore and burn more money into it ?

How can a project proposed since 1996 and the government is so persistent fails suddently ?

I guess we get some 'goodies' as leverage. Expect more news from our 'jiran' across the shore.

i guess that's the way spins work in malaysia. other people spin in one general direction. we spin all over the place. this is inline with the "don't put all your eggs in the same basket" philosophy, surely everyone will like at least one of the excuses given.

Ffrom an engineering point of view, the full bridge was badly planned from the start. Our KTM line should be connected to the mrt on the other side through a seperate tunnel/ bridge or a road/rail bridge such as the one in hong Kong/osaka to their respective airport. Having a mechanical/hydraulic lift /elevator as part of the rail bridge will not work in the malaysian context due to our lax maintenance philosophy. (Learn from the breakdown of KLIA shuttle train to the main terminal to understand this.) Therefore based on the flawed design, the bridge should be scrapped until a better design is in placed.If there is a next time for a bridge proposal, a contest should be held in the two countries to come up with the best solution to replace the causeway and a similar american idol type voting through the sms to select the winner, instead of the present bridge which was more or less bulldozed through to our neighbour to either accept or otherwise.

Ffrom an engineering point of view, the full bridge was badly planned from the start. Our KTM line should be connected to the mrt on the other side through a seperate tunnel/ bridge or a road/rail bridge such as the one in hong Kong/osaka to their respective airport. Having a mechanical/hydraulic lift /elevator as part of the rail bridge will not work in the malaysian context due to our lax maintenance philosophy. (Learn from the breakdown of KLIA shuttle train to the main terminal to understand this.) Therefore based on the flawed design, the bridge should be scrapped until a better design is in placed.If there is a next time for a bridge proposal, a contest should be held in the two countries to come up with the best solution to replace the causeway and a similar american idol type voting through the sms to select the winner, instead of the present bridge which was more or less bulldozed through to our neighbour to either accept or otherwise.

The MAN speaks....
http://asia.news.yahoo.com/060413/kyodo/d8gv2buo0.html

Singapore has never been nor will it ever be a honest broker. They always will take the one uppance attitude wehn dealing with Malaysia. They will always unfortunately have to contend with also having to satisfy the corrupt and the cronies in Malaysia and make provisions for them and from everything that I see happening I can imagine that alone is good enough to negate any progress in any kind of negotiation with Malaysia.

But even if there is no corrupt element to contend with....because their Kiasu mentality will prevail they still cannot be trusted to negotiate fairly.

The whole turn of event involved a huge sum of money. RM100 millions of taxpayer money went down the drain, or more specifically, into Gerbang Perdana Sdn Bhd's coffer. Bad planning. Just a few weeks ago, in a display of brash courage, it was announced that the bridge project was to go on without Singapore's consent. Your bad planning is costing us huge financial loses now. Yet, on page 2 of The Star newspaper, 13th April, our PM urged all departments to plan wisely and not duplicate unnecessary projects. This was supposedly to help cut down on wastage of government funds. Look who's talking

Just a basic rule by common sense, what are the implications? If you intend to open a door way across the common wall that sits between your home and your neighbor's home. Imagine how could you win the conflict (if arose) first without agreement?

This was in Sun2Surf today. I really indeed had a good laughed while reading it an imagining how TM talks. You know how sometimes the way he talks - lah.

Tun DrM on the Johor-S'pore bridge issue
Husna Yusop

KUALA LUMPUR: Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad today (April 13, 2006) said if he had not stepped down from the premiership in 2003, work on the scenic bridge, meant to replace the Malaysian half of the Johor Causeway, would have started two and a half years ago.

He said this to reporters when asked to comment on the government's decision to scrap the construction of the bridge.

Earlier, Mahathir delivered a plenary address on "Leadership Crisis and Strategic Communication Techniques" at the Institute of Islamic Understanding Malaysia (Ikim) here.

Here is the full transcript of the press conference:

"We've got to consult all quarters when doing something in our own country. If we do not consult outsiders, we might do the wrong thing and will have to bear the consequences.

"Consultation with the neighbours is very good. If the neighbour disagreed, we have to take into consideration their views, even if what we are doing is within our own country.

"At that time, it (Singapore) did not even have a position, we were about to start (construction) but I retired. If I did not leave, it would have started two and a half years ago.

"If we wait, they will find so many things (reasons) more. We have to give them sand, air space... Now, we no longer ask about the price of water which is sold at three sen. It is quiet now. That way, we would be in better terms with our neighbours.

Is it not a waste of money?

"It is okay... I wasted a lot more money, the mega projects.

What are the legal implications?

"No legal implications. We were already there, if we had started, there will be no problem. If we wait, they dig here and there, and find precious stones."

What about opposition from Johoreans?

"They did not oppose as far as I can see. Even now, they are not opposed to having the bridge...But we are building the bridge in our place, (they) want us to expand Singapore, what is the connection?

"Just like the case of our money in the CPF. It is our money ... but we do not ask (for the money) back, we are good people.

"The CIQ, I heard Singapore plans to turn it into the biggest shopping complex in Southeast Asia. Singapore suggested it, it could not be illogical, right? This is not being sarcastic. This is sincere. Turn it into a shopping complex - beautiful and sophisticated.

"We have to look after the people's heart. Johor, according to Singapore, is full of crimes. If no bridge, no causeway, Singaporeans won't go to Johor. So there won't be crimes. ... As usual, we keep quiet."

Are you surprised with the decision?

"I am not surprised. Many times the government reserves decision when people disagree... toll hikes...The government is caring. Even (with) people outside our country, with our neighbours, the good ones, the nearby ones. We must be very nice to them.

"We have been taking into account Singapore's views ... They do not want the bridge, they want the causeway because it is nostalgic to Goh Chok Tong, we just accept it."

Both countries are too small and close to each other in so many ways to continue being at loggerheads. Remove the political veils over both and you'll find so many commonalities that seem to reflect one country two systems.

As the world becomes more integrated, wherein lies the reason anymore for the sort of arms-length fracas that seem to deepen mistrust and tits-for-tats?

Whatever it is, there were a lot of missteps, even design mindblocks for this project.

Now if they don't turn the complex into something useful, the money has been blown - when it could well have been put to really good use - like scholarships for bright young Perry-Mason wannabes, those who score 12As. Like those hundreds of Malaysians now studying over there under their scholarship/citizenship programme.

Now, are the citizens of both countries to continue suffering every day and weekend for the troubles and jams they have to endure crossing from just one neighbour's compound to another?

And north singapore plus south johor straits fronts can be converted into an asian riviera lush with bikinied tourists, seafood restaurants, waterfront theme parks, marina bays.

Now, mud.

hmmm has anyone ever lose $100million of their customer money and still allowed to keep their job?

shouldn't someone be made accountable to the $100m lost of our money?

or is this more complex than that?

I have a positive proposal to our government but maybe sickening to others. But just think it again deeply diplomatically.

Since Singapore is so must close to Israeli than we are to the Palestinean. We should practice what the Israeli way of treatment.

1. Immediate retract of Malaysian Citizen from Singapore and banned our citizen from visiting, same like to Israel. Erect Double Concrete Border Wall to prevent the moving of illegal immigrants just as USA Build USA-Mexico Concrete Border along the borderline.

2. Demolish the causeway thus to prevent our subsidized Petroliums, Sugars, etc... from smuggling into Singapore daily. Just like taking down of Berlin Wall.

3. Give 1 year notice of intention to discontinue on plain water supply and void the prevously signed contracts, and at this meantime, only connect the water to them via plant watering hose will do.

To see if Singapore will starts to respects its neighbour.

Damm me if you would like to say so. And THANKS, I take it as compliments.

Singapore yet again tested the limits of our patience and impudently underestimated our intelligence and our ability to safeguard our honour.An ever hungry hyena testing the good mannered lion in trying to steal the carcasses under his very nose.They did that once under a different setting during the premiership of Tengku Abdul Rahman .The result was the expulsion of the Island State of Singapore from Malaysia.They did it again this time through a series of viscous and inscrutable positions taken by them in the supposedly neighbourly negotiations to sort out long standing issues and address new ones in the light of current developments in the ecology and economy of the two countries.The result is that the "scenic" bridge now has become a euphemism describing the lack of good will and bilateral abhorrence that we have for each other.

As a Malaysian I fully support the decision made by our government.By making all sorts of unreasonable demands on us that would tantamount to jeopardising our national integrity for the construction of the proposed "scenic " bridge they gone over board and had transgressed all known decorum of good neighbourhood.It is like a robber who have broken into our house ,who, after being caught red handed tried to buy his freedom by suggesting that the spoil be shared with us !.This has always the mind set that have been molded by the "kia su" mentality.We should just hit them hard so that they would fly head long over the hedges.

I was flabbergasted at the ready admission by Pak Lah that the government should see fit to compensate RM100 Million to the contractor. Did it really spend that much money? Common sense would tell us that this amount is really far fetched. From the look of it, apart from the CIQ, all I can see from pictures in the press are a few sticks of piles. I would like the Works Minister to be forthright and humbly tell the people how much the contractor had spent on the project so far. This is taxpayers' money going down the drain.

BaganSPU,

Malaysia always have problem with neighbour country where Singapore do not have any problem with Australia, Thailand and Indonesia. Is this something we need to dwell about ?

Are we hamper enough to respect what SG have archieve so far? Do you realise how many Malaysian are currently working in SG to make their living because the living cost in Malaysia was way too high for average family to survive? Do you think most of them like to work in SG given a choice. Do you know the journey to work if you travel daily is really really tired, some people have to wait up 3~4am just to get on road to the custom. Why they are doing this? What's national pride when you can't even feed your family ?

When SG left Malaysia, they have nothing and we have all the land, plantation etc. Just compare our national reserve to theirs now and you will reliase how tiny we are today and how far we are behind.

"Should have the half bridge issue gone to the international court, the government is confident that it would have won the case, Foreign Minister Syed Hamid Albar insisted today."

:D :D :D

abt time someone teach msia a lesson. it goes to show that while we can nego terms within our own country in getting deals with whatever underhand tactics, u cant do the same with our neighbours. they dont hv to kow tow to us. yes singapore is arrogant but so is msia for telling the whole world that legally we will win and therefore we shall pursue it. now rm100 million gone into someone pockets but without any tangible things for the ppl to enjoy. at least it gv some indon workers a job these past few years. i can only imagine if such deals are done locally, surely the cronies will steamrolled past whoever is in the way. Facilitate not frustrate. Tell me now which is which. Walk the talk or talk is cheap. RM100mil just a small portion of rm4.4billion. Kacang la.

firestream, you must be kidding me. While I don't agree with BaganSPU, your statement about Singapore having no quarrel with other is not true.

The reason Singapore asked for Malaysian sand supply is because Indonesia bans sand exportation to Singapore around 2003/04. Indonesia accuses Singapore of trying to redraw the Spore-Indonesia border. There are a few other stuff between Indo and Spore too but I let you dig that up from the net.

And Australia, how about that Australian Nguyen Tuong Van case?

Don't forget, that industrial area incident in China too which happened in 1999.

Msia-Spore relationship could be ridiculous sometimes but Singapore is no angel. Maybe, we should ponder that too.

Here's my 2 cents worth. As much as I know about business when you deal with a "nation of shopkeepers" like S'pore you either maneuver to deal with them from a position of strength or equal footing or you don't deal at all until you find your footing. Even if they see the benefits clearly for themselves, they're going to give you a raw deal, if you go to them begging. The "win-win" situation is an idealist's point of view and good for putting the opponent at ease - a feel-good moment for someone to pull more goodies from under your nose. Unless we have the money to throw around, I think it's right to cut losses now and talk about it later with a better plan. But first, we must clean up our act in our own backyard.

AAB should understand the legal implications involved first before embarking into the crooked-bridge.Why back off now when initially the hu-ha of going ahead even without Singapore's approval.Real malu and Singaporeans are laughing at us for doing things without brains.

Firestream,

Your comments about singapore having nothing when they left Malaysia is naive and is what they want you to believe, LKY turned a sleeping fishing village into a super economic power! Was Singapore a sleppy fishing village or was it the centre of british administraition and important port in south east asia with excellent infrastructure? Can he do the same had he been the prime minister of Timor Timor? Doubt it

Anyway, I believe the legal implications have always been there and they were all aware of it but Pak Lah had something to prove. He wanted to prove that he's better than Tun and can get a S'pore to agree on the bridge because he's a nice guy which obviously a big mistake on his part. S'pore will always be S'pore nothing will ever changed. Period.

Remember the 30% LEAK of every Bolehland government project.

The crooked bridge DOESN'T COST/WORTH THAT MUCH.

In fact, we waste less for stopping the project.

BaganSPU,

US aircraft carrier can cross atlantic/pacific ocean in less than 3 days. Bolehland is in no position to do any of your kampung tricks to attract US navy force into the region.

Lucky you are not one of those that handle Bolehland foreign policies.

Had the past Msian government governed Singapore and the past Singapore governed Malaysia, would the result be the same ?

I seriously doubt it...

Patrick,

Asking the question the other way round will probably get us closer to the answer.

Would Brunei be better off if it had joined Malaysia?

Would Sabah and Sarawak be better off it they had not joined Malaysia?

Would Malaysia be a better place for all (not just a particular race) if it had been governed by the Malaysian govt for the past 41 years?

Would Singapore be worse off it it had been governed by the Malaysian govt.

Only the last question can be answered with any degree of certainty. During the 2 years when Singapore was in Malaysia - its foreign reserves went down, its GDP growth went negative and its trade went down.

I thought both parties agreed not to disclose the details while the negotiation was still going on. Until today, I have not read anything from Singapore Ministry of Foreign Affair and media confirming the sand and air space demands.

There is obviously more to this affair than meets the eye. the reason given for the cancellation is of course a politically convenient excuse, and NOT the real reason. There were hints of potential legal reasons, and I suspect therein lies the real reason.

The reason for the bridge to begin with is also shrouded in mystery. Much has been said, but I think the main reason is likely access to PTP, and a chance to collect tolls. As well as the usual big margin for the contract.

Whatever the real reason, it obvious does NOT benefit Singapore at all, and hence like in any negotiations, they will looks for some benefits out of this deal. They asked for sand, and overflying rights.

The final outcome will thus depend on whether the benefit to Malaysia (if any) is enough to justify the politically suicidal agreement to allow the SAF to overfly Malaysian airspace. It is obvious Singapore is NOT going to back down on this.

Well, we know the answer don't we.

Being emotional and blindly patriotic, like some of the posters, will not help, and just show one's lack of knowledge and rational thinking.

As to fair negotiation, there isn't such a thing. You negotiate to get the best for yourself. If you negotiate from a position of strength, you will extract more concessions.

The Old Man is wrong. He sacastically implied we should not needed to seek our neighbour's permission before building on our side of the border. Obviously we do, as it will interfere with links which are protected by law, ie water pipeline and rail. And in any case, Singapore's demands is in exchange for allowing a FULL bridge, not giving permission for the half bridge, which they have no say, other than how it will affect the above links.

We went to the negotiating table without firm footing, and then run crying about unfair negotiations? Grow up.

Folks,
The RM100 Million compensation is for abortive work. I know the people involved in the design work. These include Site and Soil Investigation (SI), detailed design and don’t forget that there were many designs and configurations that were prepared. Each one of those designs involved engineering consideration, as the bridge must be “build-able”; meaning you have to pay the engineers that will include civil, structural, electrical, mechanical and value engineering work. Malaysian expertise is still cheap, but if you were to look at several of those designs, many were of the suspension bridge type, and therefore specialists needed to be employed. The contractors (Gerbang Perdana) had to engage these designers and engineers, and if you have experience working with the government, payment is quite a challenge (far and few in between, so imagine the financing costs). These works would have been “packaged” into the over-all project. The cost can be high as the design consideration is for an electrified double-track at speeds exceeding 90 km/hr. Trains require close tolerances unlike roads, and cannot tolerate bumps. Therefore the ground treatment cost is high. The site also is soft and the geological structure makes it quite an engineering challenge!

If you follow how the Americans are building the Oakland bay bridge that connects to the famous San Francisco Golden Gate Bridge, you can appreciate the exorbitant cost, both in the US and Malaysia.

JEFF OOI says: Interjection. The Bay Bridge and the Golden Gate Bridge are located on two separate locations, kilometers apart. The Bay Bridge connects the Market Street in downtown San Francisco northeastwards to Oakland; whereas the Golden Gate Bridge connects northwards to drop at area near Sausolito. Not harm done but just to set the record straight or else my US friends will laugh at me for this disinformation.

By building a bridge and removing the causeway, it turns Peninsula Malaysia (PM) in one fell-swoop into a giant port. Think about it from shippers stand point. You can offload anywhere from Penang, Lumut, Port Klang (3 major ports), and two in Johor (PTP and Pasir Gudang), Kuantan and then Kemaman can be further expanded. Don’t forget in-land ports!

Kemaman is already a major supply base to support Indo-China’s offshore activities. Linking Pasir Gudang and Port Of Tanjung Pelepas either through a land-bridge or removal of the causeway will create a strategic disadvantage to Singapore. All is not lost as the better proposal is to build a land-bridge. Once Malaysia’s infrastructure is in place, and having a few major shipping companies that are Malaysian owned and calling at Malaysian ports, shipping Malaysian manufactured goods and commodities (even from Malaysian owned companies in Indonesia as the port facilities is simply not there yet), Singapore is under serious threat! Do we really need to remove the causeway? I think not, and that’s the thinking of the current government. Why spend money on your side, when you don’t really have to?

Why then should Malaysia allow Singapore military to use Malaysian airspace (an issue of sovereignty, and security)? Singapore has water, and water everywhere, but not a drop to drink! That’s a strategic dilemma, and a security problem. Who is to stop any antagonist to sabotage the water supply to Singapore and it will be a worst-case scenario for Singapore! Will water be used as leverage in the future? It will be!

All of Singapore’s strategic assets are within the reach of Malaysia’s arsenal; cheap and in abundance! A conflict will be short and decisive, and casualty on the Singapore side, including their infrastructure will be devastating! That’s one scenario I have seen! So Singapore is left to acquire assets from it’s neighbors. The Thais clearly objected when the PM’s family sold strategic assets to Singapore. Malaysians are realizing this too. We should now nationalize water supply company and reverse the privatization as the WTO rules mean that strategic assets, when privatized, can be acquired by foreign entities!

There’s more to it than what appears, and really, I’m doubtful of Singapore’s prospects and future.

It really depends on whom you talk to. Is it really bad in Malaysia? Others say this is a land of opportunity, and then there are the detractors that may say otherwise. Politics is the same anywhere. If it’s bad here, I think it’s worse in the US where your family members may be on foreign soil fighting for two wars that have no clear victory in sight!

What I would fight for really is lower duties and taxes, folks, to lower the cost of living! That will be a structural advantage. Subsidies don’t work!