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Jeff,

We have not seen any Malaysian Muslims protesting in the streets of Kuala Lumpur and other towns in Malaysia on this issue.

Let's keep it that way.

We don't like to see something bad starting here in your blog, do we?

It's wise for you to drop the issue.

Three monkeys:

See No evil!
Speak No evil!
Hear no evil!

But just let evil run its course though!

Yes Jeff, I definitely agree with YgArif.

Those who protesting depicted in some insignificant page in The Star don't need to know this issue. They don't need to know what the other side of the world think of their belief.

I suggests Jeff drop the issue and sweep it under the carpet or something bad will happen. I mean you write something they don't like and something bad will happpen isn't it? Don't take it for granted, some of them still dunno that the V is running low.

so let blame the ulamas not Jyllands-Posten... is that what you trying to say Jeff?

I'd say Jeff's trying to highlight both parties inadequacies: the Western media for being culturally insensitive to the issue by continuing to publish the offensive cartoons in their papers, and also certain Muslim fundamentalists for trying to inflame the issue instead of trying to calm things down.

Around this time, we'd need to watch out later for our own 'national' fundamentalists for playing up the issue...

i second writome. bout the ulamas, its not the root cause. its jyllands-posten. When the the first time in denmark, muslims furious. after 4 months look its getting cold. But republishing in norway and other euro countries like rubbing salt at the wound.

Sorry jeff, i still vote your post regarding islam 1 out of 10.

JEFF OOI says: Is this an edict you dispensed?

ono. pak lah has commented, too. wanna tell him to shut up? doomed, we are all. nothing we can do. helpless, are we.

Guys, put it in their context, some time back, they had riots in Paris and its surroundings, Germany same thing, Holland some movie producer got stabbed. London, bombing. THAT is their neighborhood.

Of all people, I thought you'd understand why muslims are pissed. I think you do. Free speech is okay. I amk all for it but was the cartoons really necesary?

For other

Here's a bit of background to the Danish Cartoon story from a Danish-Malaysian who grew up in and loves Malaysia's multi-cultural ism, but who also realises that this model has innate conflicts requiring tough compromises.
----
A small country, Denmark was long a mono-cultural country. Besides a brief Caribbean adventure, Denmark did not have a nasty colonial past and was able to thrive on a reputation as being liberal, tolerant and generously humanitarian. Denmark's first wave of “exotic” immigrants were Turks who arrived in the late 50s and 60s to meet a labour shortage during a period of rapid economic growth. In the mid to late 70s it accepted groups of Vietnamese and Iranians refugees. Many were either professionals or had commercial backgrounds. Being a tiny minority, they were accepted, assimilated to some degree and kept a low profile.

Throughout the 80s and early 90s, Denmark was one of only a handful of countries to meet its UN refugee quota. I believe the others were Germany, Switzerland, the Netherlands, Sweden and Norway. Selection was in no way influenced by education, wealth, nationality, race or religion. If you could prove persecution, you got in the door. Acceptance procedures and monitoring was perhaps a little naïve. There were probably a sizable number of economic immigrants among the persecuted. Despite this, most Danes still felt that there was enough wealth to share.

It was in the late 80s that Danes first realised it wouldn't all be smooth sailing. Tabloid highlighted stabbings shocked many. Danes saw immigrants at malls, where young immigrant men would hang-out, apparently with nothing to do. Many of these new comers had grown up in unstable war torn societies in Palestine, Somalia and Iraq. Few had tertiary educations. Many chose to live within their own communities that developed around state-owned apartment complexes in major cities. Once here, their spouses and families were relatively easily able to qualify for residency. Many remained unemployed.

Interestingly, the Jaffna Tamils who came in the late 80s and early 90s did not come under the same negative spotlight as the other groups, with the exception of certain fund raising activities. Neither have the Bosnians, but that's perhaps understandable given their cultural proximity.

Meanwhile, the Socialist and Social-Democratic parties' solid elderly and blue collar electoral base began switching camps. The populist Progress Party, later to evolve into Danish People's Party has become far more appealing. Campaign promises of maintaining social services and benefits, and halting the foreigner flow appealed to many Danes.

At the 2001 election, the Danish People's Party, as the 3rd largest party in parliament, held the deciding number of votes that would allow the centre-right coallition to form a government made up of the (laissez-faire) Liberals and Conservatives. The Danish People's Party stayed out of the government but now had the de-facto final say on all policy. The new government very quickly cut immigration and refugee acceptance numbers. The country became a fortress after for many years of having had one of the most open and welcoming doors in the world. Even Danish citizens had to prove to have lived in the country for a certain number of years before a foreign spouse could qualify for residency. Although the official line was that the law was introduced to prevent young immigrant women from being forced into arranged marriages, it was obviously a law targeted at all immigrants who had acquired Danish citizenship, and who might bring in more foreigners through marriage.

Despite the cushy social services and benefits, it hasn't been easy for these New Danes (as they're now referred to) to adapt and better their lot. Discrimination has been well documented, especially for blue-collar jobs. This includes the all-important apprenticeships that allow non-academic young New Danes to break into the skilled blue-collar workforce. Many have grown up with little contact with ethnic Danes and are unable to converse fluently in either Danish or their own mother tongue. Some forms of discrimination are a little bit more subtle. Denmark's largest corporation, and arguably one of the world's most global, does not allow employees to wear tudungs at its supermarkets.

It is against this backdrop that we have the cartoon incident. Over 120 people have already been laid off in a dairy industry that relies heavily on the Middle-Eastern market. More lay offs are expected. An interesting development is that the normally silent liberal muslim immigrant community is expressing its views of the situation. One of its representatives, Nasser Khader MP, is quoted in Jyllands-Posten (4/2/06) as saying, “If the Imams think its so terrible to be in Denmark, why be here? No one is forcing them to. They could move to one of the countries in the Middle East that's based on the Muslim values that they insist to live by. It looks like they feel more loyal towards for example Saudi Arabia, so I think they should move down there.” However, it should be noted that this liberal segment is as different from the disaffected immigrants as most ethnic Danes are. They are secular, integrated and probably made up largely of professionals.

Danes are shocked at the flag burnings. They're extremely proud of their symbol, often flying it outside their homes (very rarely with nasty nationalistic intentions of any kind). They've never seen this happen, even with Denmark's conveniently quiet military participation in Iraq and Afghanistan.

However, Danes are a pragmatic people. Just after the 2nd World War, the Allies were unsure as to which side the majority of Danes had supported. These doubts were soon dispelled as people lined the streets en-masse to welcome Montgomery on his victory drive through the country. In recent days, there's been quite a lot of back peddling by both the government and the press on their initial firm freedom of speech stance. The offending paper, Jyllands-Posten, has expressed its conciliatory stand on www.jp.dk in Danish, English and Arabic. Unfortunately, the majority of those angry with Denmark do not know about this yet, and probably never will.

First, you never insult someone's religion. Never.

I don't like my GOD to be depicted in cartoon by other race. And I won't do it to other religion. Simple.

These guys, maybe just couple of them, publish something so foolish that they risk millions of their innocent citizen's life, worth it?

why cant muslim did the same thing to the danish by expressing their feelings with another comic instead of going thru politician? riot and all ..WHY? ..i tot TOLERANCE is the key component of all religion? let other says what they want, no harm done? information age already lo!!

oh almost forgot jeff, welcome back and happy chinese new year..wowo year!

Geovanni: Spot on!

Luvmalaysia: I don't quite agree with the hostile reaction but that comes, I suspect with the way they are. If you want to demonstrate, do it peacefully. At least in MY, we don't see (I hope we won't) angry mobs attacking the Danish embassy. But, do another comic and insult who? Jesus? Muslims will never insult Jesus or other prophets. Tolerance, yes...but no one told the Danish nespaper that, didn't they? I just hope cool heads will prevail.

My take on rights is that they are ok as long as you don't infringe on rights of others. The cartoon affairs is one of them.
What I am worried is that this is part of a larger agenda to demonise muslims. Given the response we see in Middle east,Pakistan and even Indonesia, it's so easy to do just that.

This would put that into worrisome perspectives:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/04/15/wqueen15.xml&;sSheet=/news/2005/04/15/ixworld.html

and this:
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/616

it seems muslims overreact on this issues.

but coincidently , 5 month before the cartoon is publish , The Queen of Denmark (who is also titular Head of the State Lutheran Chruch) has called on her subjects to oppose Islam .

source http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/04/15/wqueen15.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/04/15/ixworld.html

Over-reacting, Pacman? Obviously you don’t know what that word really means.

The muslims can accept others to oppose their religion… But to insult their prophet and Islam? That’s a different matters altogether.

I cannot understand quite a big portion of what Islam teaches. And an even larger protion of what some Muslims practise and often preach as Islam. I would even go as far as saying that there is a lot which seems senseless to me.

But that does not warrant me publically insulting Islam. All the more so when those who embraced that religion believe that images of Muhammad (for instance) is a strict no-no.

Ditto for Hindus and their belief that cows are sacred, for instance.

I can happily chow down on my beefburgers; but that does not mean I can publically insult Hindus for holding the cow as sacred.

Basic principle for inter-religious / inter-racial harmony.

As such, Felmming Rose adn his ilk deserve to be ketuk for trying to justify the cartoons on the basis of a stand against self-censorship.

Even his point that Danes routinely insult their Queen holds no water; their Queen did not object while the Muslims did and still do.

However, that the fury of the Muslims in Denmark is justified (in my opinion) still does not make the addition of 3 insulting cartoons (which were not published by Jayllands-Posten) the right thing to do. The 3, from the descriptions in reports, are even worse than what Flemming Rose produced.

If indeed the 3 were added by Imam Ahmed or his cohorts, it is not only as bad as Flemming Rose's deed, but also begs a bigger question:

Who drew the insulting cartoons?

If it was one of the Muslims, then is it not an even worse insult to Islam?

It looks like Imam Ahmed and his gang are not exactly angels either.

The Danes should be more sensitive to other races and religions especially when few of major global conflicts centered around the identification of conflicting religions...and oil (for that father n' son).

Normal people know its not right to go out and insult or make fun of someone else's religion. Moreso when such caricature was from a newspaper, which presumably being vetted by its editor and journalist before published. This profession people should have greater exposure to sensitivity and the going-ons in the world.
The Danes are absolutely in wrong here and should take all necessary actions to rectify this issue. The Dane goverment should step in and apologise to the Muslims.

Danes, let me tell you this. In Malaysia, when some newspapers reported something wrong, the people will resigned (although few newspapers still retain their people...depending on which language newspapers you are).

Freedom of speech does not entails unethical reporting.

In such a case, I believe some peaceful demonstration or even political pressure are justifiable.

My: FYI, i m a free thinker, no religion attached.
"religion divide people"

why others wanna illustrate Muslim into something bad. There must be reasons behind it, right? (apply to all religion). do a review of muslim.

my saying is "no fire without sparkles" hehe..hope you understand.

Tip 4 every1: refer to religion as a guideline, not a MUST thing. A much better world, dunt you think so?

If others wanna insult your religion, let him be. Why got pissed off over few comic strips. He will get punished by GOD. :)

I hope the Danes have learned their lessons. Freedon comes with responsibilities. What they did was wrong. And those who threw 'petrol' to make it worse with lies are also guilty.

We should be sensitive with each others religion and Malaysian now this but I do hope it is not one way street thou.

I like the view taken by CNN, that they chose not to show the cartoons due to sensitivity to muslims. yes the cartoons can be found easily and we need to give both sides of the story.

The Danes have apologise and it is time to move on. Lets be practical, we don't need violence to prove a point.

luvmalaysia, as a "freethinker" it may well be quite difficult for you to appreciate the passion those who practise a religion have for their religion and the various entities in it.

Indeed, your "Tip 4 every1" embodies the exact opposite of what many religions mean to their followers - a better world comes from their God/religion being everything. A religion which can never be only a guideline to serious followers of many religions.

to leithaisor:

quote "....embodies the exact opposite of what many religions mean to their followers - a better world comes from their God/religion being...."

Agreed. that's y WAR exist, because of 'serious follower'.
think bout it, there is no difference between gangster club and religious society :(. Just different branding.

history told us: millions dead because of 2 leaders have different believes . sad.
rite? why repeat them?

luvmalaysia, I cannot really agree with you, but then again, we each have the right to believe in what we choose to believe in, right?

And we are not about to insult each other publically [with cartoons?]just because we differ in our opinions. Or quote each other with words added in which were not there originally.

So I think in that respect, we may just have done better than some people in Denmark :) .

Hello Sekupang,

Thank you for writing such a detailed background about the Danish and immigrants. I am Dutch-Malaysian. I think we, Demark and NL share almost the same background re-immigration. Same tolerants, same naiveness, and now receiving the same backlash for being nice and human. Kind of sad to see that we now have to build a fortress to stop people from coming in.

It is so happend I was watching a BBC world program tonight 'Debate in Doha' or something to that effects. Tonight's topis is about 'should the Arab world adopt western journalistic values -- or something along the line'(I missed the beggining of the program), then later on a Dutch program about the cartoon incident. It then dawn on me that, the Arab and perhaps (I have to be careful here) the Moslim world vs. the western and freer worlds, are literally two worlds apart. I am just wondering, how many of those on the streets protesting and buring flags and now buildings really understand the 'hidden meanings' of the cartoon? I think they are looking at it litterally, whereas speaking for myself, I look at it from a totally different perspective. Having said that, I don't think most of the Arab and Moslim worlds will ever be able to understand the cartoon therefore it is really useless to apologize. They will be on deaf-ears.

I stand by freedom of speech. I have seen The Economist have worser cartoons about Bush, the British royal family, the EU etc.

If I understand correctly according to the news I received, countries that are enmassed protesting on the streest are Indonesia, Syria, Palestine, Pakistan (have I missed some?) Perhaps we have to ask why these countries? I am trouble by the fact that these are the countries that are the easiest to be manipulated. These are the countries that are among the poorest of the poor ... Then we have Iran who has a president that is attempting to erase history ...

to luvmalaysia:

Whether the world is better or not is subjective. If strict adherence to one's religion is what they think is the path to a 'better world', well so there

You obviously have your own leanings and sets of thought ou adhere to ie. what you believe to be freethinking. This makes you an adherent of one line of thought (yours) and still vulnerable to conflict with another line of thought. What I'm saying is, it's not just 'serious followers' who are susceptible to these conflicts.

anyway no hostilities intended. Just me 2cents

"Same tolerants, same naiveness, "

"Then we have Iran who has a president that is attempting to erase history ..."

Umm yeah I geddit

Dear C-Fu,
We are digressing but how far back is history is considered history?
60 years back, no Israel.2000 years ago there was, I think.
600 years back Kuwait's part of Iraq.
1900s, Kelantan,Terengganu,Kedah are part of Thailand.
1500+,Americas belonged to the natives

Where do you draw the line to claim what is historically yours?

to cindy...

allow me give u simple example...
insulting your friend's cat and insulting your friend's mother are totally different...
u may get a laugh from your friend for joking about his cat...
but for insulting his mother, u will definitely get a kick in the ass...

Seems like some of us Malaysians expect the Danes to respect “isu sensitif”. The Malaysian mind-set superior/better/wiser to the Danish one? Wake up boys and girls “isu sensitif” was invented to keep you all in line. It's worked on YgArif, that's for sure. Nothing raises my hackles like that phrase. That phrase lands innocent people in jail. Where are the so calld liberal multicultural Malaysian values now? Ready to kill over a cartoon.
Sheesh somebody needs to cut down on the sweet stuff.
Bottom line; it's their country, don't like it...move someplace else more suitable and leave the Danes alone.

ps GXFC Jeffrey!

Luvmalaysia: Yes, I understand why the cartoon is about. But I think before that, you should also do a review as to what is a Muslim and what is Islam. Similarly, what is a Jew and what is a Judaism and what is are Christians and what is the Christianity. Muslims, Jews and Christians are people. They embraced their religion but they are people. And people are stupid and they make mistakes. Religion teaches you the right thing over the bad ones. Enev if you're a free thinker, there are obviously things that is a no-no and things which are okay. The point is, muslims ...I suspect will not make fun of prophets or caricature prophets...even prophets closest to judaism. You can caricature muslims or the "negativity" of some of the muslims like those who killed themselves. By caricaturing that, you're making fun of those people...the ugly side...not the entire community as much nor their Prophet. Some would say, that muslims too caricature the jews but that is it...they caricature the "ugly side" of jews (which is not only limited ti jews but other communities too)... but not the Prophets from the jews...nor are they associating the Prophets with the ugly side of the jews (if any..like sabra and shatilla)...I think caricaturing prophets and communities is two different things altogether.

In the end, it's really about being sensitive. I suppose a secular person too has some degree of sensitiveness. And when in this current time when there is a lot of distrust, the cartoons was just simply a bad choice for displaying examples of freedom of speech. Probably if you were to read Richard Itani's article in Counterpunch, then you may see that the "freedom of speech" argument is really jaded...
( http://www.counterpunch.org/itani02022006.html )

Gunnfan,

Its easy really. Wawawiwa summed it up. Also read Richard Itani's article and then tell me if the Iranian president was right to say what he did about the holocaust (which I don't agree with the Iranian Prez) or do you think it was within his freedom of speech...(hence I am sure you were at arms defending him when the Europeans, Americans were critisizing him)

My Dear MY,
The Iranian President is a nut who is dragging his country over a cliff, just to score some brownie points with the Ummah. But I certianly don't want him dead just cause he's a nut. He needs to stay on his medication that's all. ;)

Why am i a free thinker. (once a follower)
few points, that's why..

All religion
1. born in year? ages ago? thousand yrs old? for what purpose? in hope to stop chaos happened everywhere around the world.
*religion divide people once people are educated. information age lo. (point 2)

2. education level ages ago? when people are not educated, he/she can be manipulated easily. *follow the crowd type. one huhaa, 2nd huahaa, 3rd huhaa..later every1 huhaa...

3. no CSI, DNA or scientific evidences..so creating or destroying the 'truth' can be done easily by the rich and power. *i give 100gold to kill the witness

4. a powerful tool to unite people. FOC..PLUS you get donations from the followers..nice, dunt you think so? whoever think of this, is damn smart the evil way.
*even tho religious society are richer than bill gates, hardly see them DONATE to the poor or those who really need them. even they do, is peanuts compared to what they got in the bank account. They chose to invest in different businesses instead. *craB..seafood i like

5. business opportunity for the people. building huge statue, temples, selling all kinds of religious accessories..$$$ for the followers :) (lilion too, she got it right).

6. some rules and regulation are against human rights, women, children and absolutely inhuman. but why the follower chose to blind themselves?
is simple, human behavior. refuse or afraid to change even problem does exist all the time.

i hope more people can drop the religion thing and work together as a team to develop the country and make malaysia a better place to stay.

Malaysia Boleh Positive!!

Some people just don't understand... It got nothing to do with whether you are free thinker or freedom of speech blah blah blah...

The Danes criticized their own queen. They entitle to it just like how we criticize our own government. They wouldn't be happy if the Finns starts criticize their queen. Go tell the Danes that their woman is ugly, see what happen to you…

of coz it matters..mr geo. got pissed of over few comic strips and burn down buildings..helo. gangsters?

arent those super religious people? if they think freely..none of this will happened...duh.

geovanni..think wider please..thx

read this.

Gunnfan,

Ah yes, we do agree on one point then...he is a nut case ;)

The irony is that many arabic countries regularly publish enti semetic cartoons so as the old saying goes "If you live in a glass house don't throw stones"

Azlan, (I wrote this earlier)

The point is, muslims (or Arabs) ...I suspect will not make fun of prophets or caricature prophets...even prophets closest to judaism. You can caricature muslims or the "negativity" of some of the muslims like those who killed themselves. By caricaturing that, you're making fun of those people...the ugly side...not the entire community as much nor their Prophet. Some would say, that muslims too caricature the jews but that is it...they caricature the "ugly side" of jews (which is not only limited to jews but other communities too)... but not the Prophets from the jews...nor are they associating the Prophets with the ugly side of the jews (if any..like sabra and shatilla)...I think caricaturing prophets and communities is two different things altogether.

(Do tell me if anyone has seen Arabs/Muslims caricaturing negatively the Prophets who come from the Jews, for example?)

Hey mr. free thinker..

It's just a comment. Why you are so upset? Start branding me as bad guys...

Relax... at one moment I thought you gonna burn my house.

Hi Mr. Free thinker,

One more thing, since you are religion-less, mind to tell us what is your race?

Cheers.

quote "Some people just don't understand... It got nothing to do with whether you are free thinker or freedom of speech blah blah blah..."

because you sound upset ma. so i gave you my pointers.

No worries, i wont burn ur house like those muslim. me no gangster.

what do you think bout my comment on religion. coool?

gong xi fai chai..
cheers

keep on barking in this year of the god, luvmalaysia

[ DELETED - Inflammatory ]

The Europeans, including the danish, and from Holland, are not liberals. They cannot accept foreign cultures as easily as Malaysians.That includes other monoethnic countries like japan and increasingly, Singapore. Over here, we will not bat an eye lid if you are dressed as a Monk, or wear a Taliban type of costume, or a Gucci suit.Yet we are not appreciative of the cultural experience in this country.

I spot some ID-Ten-T commenters here read the whole issue out of context.

Especially those people who so prone to their idea and refuse to OPEN THE URL given.

The report show that Imam purposely boiled up the issue by stuffing 3 insulting cartoon that NEVER BEEN PUBLISHED.

Looks like some religions frenzy succeed with their act. BTW, if you are Malaysian, I am not suprise why some of you are so "sensitive" to the issue, since most of you just read news out of context.

Mr. Free Thinker,

Again, I said i didn't upset and it's just a comment. Why you keep saying I'm upset.

Anyway, that is not important as you are a free thinker. All this doesn't bother you including depicting the prophet as you hold no religion right?

Gong xi fa chai.

Cheers.

It's regardless whether the 3 cartoons is being published or not. It's more on how the European keep bringing out the offensive cartoon when Muslim already made they protest. This shows unnecessary provocation. It's very unbecoming.

It's just show how low they willing to go... by hijacking 'freedom of speech' to intimidate the other race.

First and foremost, I think people have completely missed the point of the cartoons. This is how the West perceives Islam, rightly or wrongly. These angry hordes and lynch mobs have to take a good long hard look at themselves and wonder what the bombers in New York, Bali, London and Madrid have in common. This is the perception of the West, and I don't see any one from the Arab world trying to dispel that notion. No, in fact what they're doing is merely reinforcing the view that these people are fanatic, very quick to see a supposed "threat" against them, and are willing to resort to violence. Ironic no?

Secondly, I think everyone who is moderate will agree that the reactions to these admittedly insensitive cartoons is in no way justified. Burning embassies, gunmen looking for Europeans in hotels, I don't think any Malaysian can condone it, and if you do, I would be very worried for the increasingly bleak future of our country. I'm here in London, and there are people threatening 7/7 again. I mean, how are we ever going to enter into dialogue with these fanatics and extremists?

Which brings me to my third point. Criticism is a catalyst for change. Constructive criticism of course. Sometimes one needs criticism to wake up and see the flaws in ourselves. Again, the Arab world is not instilling confidence in anyone of their desire for and ability to find a peaceful solution (Ahmedinejad in Iran for example).

Lastly I say, by all means practise your religion, be proud of it and embrace it. But don't let it rule your life to the extent that you have kill and die for it. I'm a freethinker and an agnostic, but if there really is a God, I'm sure he'll be really sad at how we're hacking away at each other in this way. That's not what he put us here for.

Just for public information: You caqn see that Satire cartoons historially were about religion and started many years ago in Europe, the link is not longer around thus Google Cache has shown it http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:SGpUDpfl-QcJ:xroads.virginia.edu/~MA96/PUCK/part1.html+reasons+for+satire+cartoons&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=9

You will see that Political and Religious cartoons has always been used in about the same matter as these had been done. To open people's minds and to bring out what is a percieved notion about certain aspects in life in order to change these aspects among those.

hann,

You are too quick to link New York to Islam. Even the CIA got it all wrong. How you can be so sure?

Fanatic? What can be more fanatic than the European who massacred 6 millions of Jews?

Let's stick to the cartoon without getting drift too far away.

Cheers.