Screenshots

Remember what the Taliban did in 2001? To call for calm and tolerance is the only right thing to do now, but one should also remember what some of us have done to the rest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:GBA8.jpg
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Bamiyan_after_Taliban_destruction.jpg

Just because they're angry doesn't give them rights to torch embassies. This is a civilized world. There's no place for this kind of people. There should be a civilized method to resolve this issue.

Jeff,

You seem to be enjoying every minute of this tragedy. This is your 4th topic on this issue in 3 days, linking every one of them to the cartoons images. This is no different with the action of the Sarawak Tribune in reproducing the cartoons.
What are you trying to achieve? What are you hoping to see happen? Is it for self glory?
We should be grateful that nothing of the sorts that is happening in Beirut and other cities, happen in our country. Lets not take it for granted that it can never happen here.

JEFF OOI says: I am very positive that good sense of civility will emerge when human tribes of different civilisations are caught in situations of conflict. As cable TVs are beaming by the hour the contrasting images of violence and peaceful appeals right into our bedroom, and Google News are aggregating news items by the thousand threads into our mailboxes, it affect all of us and we can't look the other way. We should follow tightly how the crisis is being resolved amicably, leant a lesson or two along the way, and celebrate when good ultimately prevails over bad. That's how the wheel of civilisation that has kept turning for the better, evidenced over the thousands of years of human history from north to south, west to east. Right now, the optimists among us should remain positive that the clashing civilisations will find peace ultimately... until the next test arises. We are iving, after all, living in a global village that is supposed to bring us closer, not further apart.

Remember what the Taliban did in 2001? To call for calm and tolerance is the only right thing to do now, but one should also remember what some of us have done to the rest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:GBA8.jpg
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Bamiyan_after_Taliban_destruction.jpg

dear ygarif,

please, everything you post, every sentence, everything you said sound like [ DELETED - Inflammatory ].

becasue of people like you, freedom of speech is near dead in our country if not bacause of jeff. you should thk him.

waht D15C0V3RY said is right. if you are angry bout others comment, do something civilised, [ DELETED - Inflammatory ].

peace

Tourching embassies and violent demonstrations are barbaric acts no matter what the reason maybe. Any persons who instigate such criminal acts portray a negative image of their religion. It is of no use turning a blind eye to such issues other than sitting over the table and resolving the problems. Once has to practice religious tolerance in this crazy world of ours - a little give & take is not gonna kill us. I am sure God himself must be having a good laugh over this!

YgArif, why don't you start YOUR OWN blog.

I think the whole issue put particular religion on shamed when whole issue is sparked by an Imam that show false facts(3 insulting cartoon that claim by the Imam never been published).

It also give the western media a better ground on stereotyping that religion group. Even better, now it make the demonise claim valid.

luvmalaysia,
I thought you covet freedom of speech?
Wasn't it free speech, exercised by Yg Arif? [ DELETED - Irrelevant as the originl inflammatory statements have been deleted. ]

oh jeff,
the word 'gangste*' not allowed here?

JEFF OOI says: The _context_ used to drag in "gangster" in Conversations related to this topic runs contrary to the requirement for intellectual and rational discourse. I will not condone this to happen in my blog.

i wonder what neurolept said..

I think the anger that we see now is more on the 3 out of 12 artoons which show Prophet Muhammad as a terrorist.

About people turning violent.. well.. we cannot judge their level of intellect, emotion and anger based on ourself... we will be an armchari general to do that... look at their education level... their intellect etc... maybe we can control our anger and rationalize it.. but will they??? Anger had control them... not they control the anger... They are just a few people in a million and this set of people exists in all race, religion and country.. not only in islam... look at Babri mosque - how it was torn down, then the threat muslims in US/Europe/Australia faced after 9/11 and 7/7.. even a singh was not spared to be atatcked simply because he wears Turban... Mosques was attacked... vandalized... and attack on muslims too... look at those skinheads, neo Nazi, right wing in europe and recently in Russia (as reported by CNN last 3 days ago)... these are the extreamist element of all our society, race, religion etc... Are those rioters from educated and those who can think rationally ??? I believe it is a "No"

About the Danish Government.. why can't they act as the middle man in this crisis??? they don't have to ask the paper to appologise... but simply to act as a moderator to call them to sitdown with muslims group and discuss how to settle it in a win win situation as this cartoons will makes muslims in Danmark subjected to violance too especially from those ultra nationalist/right wing/neo nazis. even there was a report that the danish police was aware there is a plot to atatck the muslims in Danmark by the right wing... and because they are the government of the people, by the people and for the people and as representatives of their people, their voters, why can't they apologise on behalf of the cartoonist and the newspaper (after discussion)... discussion doesn't means to force or interfear the newspaper or to violate the freedom of speech.. (but to make "more speech")... but just simple talk to find solutions... I will not believe this kind of PM/governemnt to represent me as the governemnt.... unresponsible government.... (That's why i don't vote for BN)

I've just been reminded of Rudyard Kipling's “IF”

“If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too; .....”

There's a world of difference between those out to make it known that they stand for truth and knowledge of the situation and trying to bring civil-minded people to see the situation in a better light and call for wiser thinking and action, than those who seek to stir the situation and make it seem worse for their own dubious ends.

I don’t doubt at all that Jeff’s updates on the situation is all for the former, in trying to let everyone see the folly of how a seemingly little “trifle” can create a huge mess, which can get worse if we don’t all look at it coolly and make an effort to keep our heads.

Keep at it Jeff.

Jeff,

I understand your point for blogging on this issue. But if your intentions is that noble, is there a need to link your topic to the cartoon images? You seem to want every reader to see them. In a way, you are promoting them.
You are fully aware that this tragedy started with these cartoons images.

JEFF OOI says: This is Internet Age. I am glad you have not edicted for a total ban of Internet. We need to face truth in all its truest forms because, when civility is engaged, we can discern good over evil, and not believe in hearsay. The Internet has enabled us to see all the 12 cartoons produced by the Danish cartoonists -- which are insensitive to Islam and Muslims -- and the other 3 extra cartoons "spice-added" by the the Danish imams in their 43-page dossier specifically prepared for their Middle-East roadshow. Make the best of situations, Internet lets you grasp information that is presented in a whiolesome and balanced form, good or bad. It's your job to buang yang keruh, ambil yang jernih, provided, if you have an iota of intellect in you. This is irrespective of whether you want to consider a warning statement like "Warning: The content may be offensive to some" was accompanied in good faith. More importantly, you CHOSE to omit the fact that I put in, NOT one or two, but THREE links all together, in order to point to the backgrounder information, AND THAT includes ONE comprehensive backgrounder written by Muslim journalist Haroon Siddiqui who writes for Toronto Star. You are a huge suspect for being a huge distortionist for making selective persecution and intentionally omit this very fact. The net effect is YOU had simply, and too easily, allowed human's intellect take a back seat just because you are daif in your worldview and you want all people to succumb to your misguidence. But I can only proffer that you did all this distortionist job in full awareness and sober mind.

Your blog readers are smart enough. They know where to look for the cartoons without you spoonfeeding them.

JEFF OOI: It's easy to apprehend, and thus giving rise to suspiscion based on misguided pretenses. Because of this, I won't be surprised to hear some sectors calling for the total ban of Internet simply because it contains. For a start, you can call for a total ban of the meat knife, simply because it can kill people.

Heh YgArif just before office lunchtime I received these comics strips in my email box. Im pretty sure half of Malaysia ppl with internet connections received this email by the end of the day. So I don't know what the fuss is all about with Jeff posting the image links.

I strongly condemn all the excessive demonstration by muslims around the world. Torching diplomatic building definitely not the best way to protest.

But hey! What the fuss! The protestors just exercizing their "freedom of expression". The west should be cool about this since they are the one who promote "freedom of expression" without any limit.

Lesson learnt: As a human we always bound to be exessive in our action. Thats why human always need some form of restriction in their action.

I strongly condemn all the excessive demonstration by muslims around the world. Torching diplomatic building definitely not the best way to protest.

But hey! What the fuss! The protestors just exercizing their "freedom of expression". The west should be cool about this since they are the one who promote "freedom of expression" without any limit.

Lesson learnt: As a human we always bound to be exessive in our action. Thats why human always need some form of restriction in their action.

-kociriemann-

p/s:aredale sorry. I dont know how ur name was appeared on the "posted by" section

Anak_perilih, LC Tech

"Are those rioters from educated and those who can think rationally ??? I believe it is a "No" ...

There are many ways of 'rioting'. Those that use physical force such as what we see on TV that seems to appeal to the 'sensational' side of our natures. There is another kind of 'rioting' that is of course the print-form: pen, painting, CARTOONS, and of course via the internet.

But, even those on the streets running amok, often time are orchestrated by those that are educated. From what I read, the additional 3 cartoons were added by Danish Imam to fan up the flame. These Imam are educated persons. Another well know case in Chinese history is the Cultureal revolution of Mao, or the 1989 June 4 incident in Beijing.

You see, often time, what we saw rioting on the streets are mostly people that are being used by the EDUCATED to thier own twisted purpose. The EDUCATED are using the simplicity of the less fortunates. It is those EDUCATED that we should condamn, and often time not those on the streets risking their lives.

I like the post on Kippling's "IF". There is another version that I read somewhere, perhaps is a Buddist teaching: we all carry two buskets. The one infront we put in the wrongs of others. The one behind are our wrongs that we do not see BUT others do.

anak_perelih

You asked why the Danish government cannot act as a middle man: "About the Danish Government.. why can't they act as the middle man in this crisis??? they don't have to ask the paper to appologise... but simply to act as a moderator to call them to sitdown with muslims group and discuss how to settle it in a win win situation..."

The Danish government has already answered this as for them to do "anything" would be for them to get involved in a private legal area where they have no control over thus they would be over stepping their bounds. In Denmark Freedom of the Press is held to a very high regard, the cartoonist and the newspapers did not break any law in Denmark, thus for the government to "call" them together would eb stepping outside its jurisdiction and thus giving into outside influences.

anak_perelih, you ask how they can settle a win-win situation? It's impossible, just look at the Israel-Palestinian crises as an example there is no win-win situation when religious matters are in contest.

I think the only way for this to go away is for the media to stop publicising it. These guys are like kids with ADD. The see themselves on TV and on the frontpages and they love the attention. If everyone stops giving them the attention they will not have the motivation to carry on protesting.

It's just like some hostage situations, the media fuels the crises.

Just remmber it was NOT the media who made this out to be the story it is, it was in fact the four Danish Muslims that took the 12 cartoons and a book and added three other cartoons that were never published in the Danish papers and promted them around the Mid-east and drawing up attention about it. It was never the original postings that drew such an outcry and worldwide show.

anak_perelih, so what do you think of these cartoons? These have been happening all these years and regularly published in the Arab world, yet you don't see the kind of violent reactions.

http://www.kahane.org/images/cartoons/anti/

wow confusedcious,

are you sure those are comics?

2 words to describe them...cruel and meaningless.

jeff please verify this, (chinese site)

thx

Yes, ET. TQ for bringing up the Bamiyan Buddha statue issue again.

[ DELETED - Please stay focussed on the blog topic, namely "How the world's clashing civilisations work together in managing a global conflict".

1. Before the riot, the cartoons seems doubtful. After the riot, some of the cartoons proven to be truthful.

2. So now the reason is low level of education huh? Which one? The normal secular syllabus or the level of pendidikan agama?

3. As for the Bamiyan statue, it is blown because it is superstituously believed that it will bring rain. As a buddhist, I would say blown any fucking buddha statues [ JEFF OOI says: A professed Buddhist will unlikely use profanity in public space. This is public space! Secobdly, don't get partisan by claiming you are a Buddhist and he a Muslim etc. I want this blog to bridge differences, not widening chasms. ] you want as long as you don't hurt anybody if you need rain because we don't worship statue. You can joke on buddhism as long as I as a buddhist can learn something from your joke. Gosh 'idolatory can comes in so many way... statue, names, books.

p/s: the noisiest party during the Bamiyan statue blowing was the archeologist and the people from museum (read: non buddhist)

My fault. Sorry.

yg arif,

jeff linked it.

But check this out. will they shut down this site? this ppl should know better about this.

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:KAPvPR3abT4J:www.umno-reform.com/+umno-reform&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1

or this link

http://alphabetsoup.bloggoing.com/

Just for public information: You caqn see that Satire cartoons historially were about religion and started many years ago in Europe, the link is not longer around thus Google Cache has shown it http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:SGpUDpfl-QcJ:xroads.virginia.edu/~MA96/PUCK/part1.html+reasons+for+satire+cartoons&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=9

You will see that Political and Religious cartoons has always been used in about the same matter as these had been done. To open people's minds and to bring out what is a percieved notion about certain aspects in life in order to change these aspects among those.

well said, Jeff.

confusedcious
Those images are from kahane.org. Founded after Rabbi Meir Kahane, one of the most virulent preacher who preached ouster of ALL arabs from their Palestinian homeland.In his name&teaching, plenty of arbs suffered. And they say those cartoons are evil?

luvmalaysia,
I think you chose what to understand and not. They are not meaningless.
What's so cruel about saying Bush and Gore are both israeli puppets?

What's so cruel about picturing Zionism as a snake you need to cut?

What's so cruel about killing the dove of peace when it's true?

So many Palestinian kids are shot dead by IDF so what's so cruel showing them being eaten by them?

Afterall,* it's only a cartoon*.

I didn't hear you say the Muhammad cartoons as meaningless.

neurolept,

Just to be precise - those images were posted at kahane.org, but they originated from the Arab press. This does not detract from the fact that Muslims resort to such cartoons as well. These images are posted here to show that making fun and caricaturing the "enemies" as evil doers are two-way streets. It takes two to tango.

The debate here is on the violent reactions to the Danish cartoons.

Both sides have committed atrocities, so neither can have the moral high ground. Both sides of the conflict have resorted to untruths and demonization through the use of cartoons - so again it is a level playing field. But the difference is in the reactions to those cartoons.

You don't see Christians or Jews burning embassies, asking for deaths, threating to behead the culprits, etc.

I take your word that Rabbi Kahane advocated ouster of all Palestinians from their homeland. But for any such example you quote, I can quote a similar example. How about the Iranian President (President - no less, and not some lowly rabble-rousing rabbi) who called for Israel to be wiped off the map???

These so-called sins such as the call by Rabbi Kahane and cartoons are just talks. But the reactions from Muslims worldwide have translated into actions - burning, anarchy, boycotts, etc.

Just to let you know, I do not condone violence on either side. I think it is wrong to poke fun at other people's religion. I think there are better ways to show one's adherence and reverence to press freedom withoug resorting to such caricatures.

Peace...

the sad part is... looking at the repercussions the cartoon ha brought and the violence that is occuring.

The message in the cartoons were probably true. Nothing hurts more than the truth.

"Freedom of expression" does not mean that one can resort to unacceptable norms in PUBLIC expressions.

All unethical, immoral, destructive or disrespectful expressions should be condemned.

Therefore, I would like to express my support for the Muslims on this issue.

Hypocrites frequently cites justifications bordering the line between "individual rights" and "mainstream press freedom". Oftenly, it is misleading and insincere in their comments.

One has to remember that uttering the "Holocaust Denial" theory in many parts of Europe is a crime! "Fascist salute" is totally unacceptable too.

The publication of the abhorrent cartoons is simply a manifestation of contempt specially targetting at a specific group of people.

I wonder what would be your reaction if something that you value the most are being portrayed in the most demeaning ways?

if this comics go thru Censorship Board, 18PL rated for sure. rite?
-----
RELIGION DIVIDE PEOPLE

so many religions and so many gods,
if GOD really does exist, he will appear and take neccesary action against it. I dunt think god will destroy anything or kill anyone.

what if god doesnt exist, well, are you 'the one'? do you have the rights to kill others, burn down buildings? or shaved the old folks bald for playing mahjong during CNY?
i guess human luv to play god. because i luv to if possible //god mode on. :)

what i think, religion is a tool for the politician to manipulate the peoples of most countries in this world. With religion you can have better excuse to wage war against others.

quote "I wonder what would be your reaction if something that you value the most are being portrayed in the most demeaning ways?"
let him be, he got the rights to do whatever he wants. MRR2 once said no problem, 'believe it or not'?

JEFF OOI says: State the source/URL.or esle it MAY go into Junk Comment and move you nearer to being banned - the blog engine is monitoring your commenter status diligently.

Let him/her be? I don't think so. I take it that you mean to say anyone who slenders your loved ones is ok. That's individual expression. But if it is a mainstream media like a newspaper saying your loved one, let's say a whore, will you be ok with it? Definitely not.

That's my point.

newspaper? magazine, they did that all the time. what's new?

Has it ever been "Okay" with those rumours in magazines? Influential people oftenly sues them to bankruptcy in democratic countries. That says it all.

thx for saying this admiral, sue you say, not burn, or kill rite?

why violence i see in this 'comic' incident. hmmm...

Confusedcious,
Caricaturing your enemies,your diciplinary teacher etc are acceptable. I accept that.

I don't see (maybe it's out there somewhere) muslims caricaturing prophet Moses,Abraham (to spite the Jewish folks) nor caricaturing Jesus ( to spite Christians). They caricatured Sharon, Netanyahu, Begin, Zionists ( not a religion),Bush, Blair etc (Not the Christian faith).

Demeaning insults to those who do/did you harm is okay but what has Prophet Muhammad done to them? You can insult Bin Laden for all you want and it has been done a lot. See any muslims demonstrating against that?

Insults to those prophets are done by people who have no regards for religion even though they might be born Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims under the pretext of free speech and they are surprised that people are angry?

By the way Rabbi Kahane was a member of the Knesset (not a lowly rabble rouser), was sacked though. Too virulent for moderate Israelis too (they exist!).He was murdered in the US by an Arab who happened to be a muslim. (See the difference between Arab and muslim? ).
Having said that one of Kahane followers burst into a mosque during Friday prayers and killed about 17 worshippers. Now, is that Judaism at work or just plain bad guy who happened to be Jewish?

Neurolept,

First off, let me say that I enjoyed debating with you on such a civil basis. When it comes to religion and politics, things tend to get out of hand. Let's keep this civil.

My question to you is - in your mind, does insulting Prophet Mohammad warrant death and destruction of properties? In your view, would Prophet Mohammad approve of what His believers are doing in His name?

JEFF OOI says: This is self-serving posturing. Please avoid asking such mode of questions in discussing the blog topic. Do you have a direct line to Prophet Muhammed... or any prophets for that matter? If you don't, He doesn't deserve to give you his last say. Drop your line of posturing please. I know where you are leading us to.

Cheers

Admiral Chengho, you [quote]"Freedom of expression" does not mean that one can resort to unacceptable norms in PUBLIC expressions.[unqote]

bombing people and buildings, detonating oneself is an acceptable freedom of expression?

confusedcious,
First, same here. It's not difficult to 'debate rationally' with a rational person.
Second, I'd say followers of Prophet Muhammad, not believers.
Thirdly, I'm convinced the Prophet himself would be the first person to ask them (the rioters) to stop this nonsense. But if this is in his lifetime, NOBODY would dare to do this in the first place.Because I suppose, then ,religions are highly respected, All religions.

See, what I have been trying to say is stop maligning Islam when some muslims are behaving like an ass and so should civilised society (read West) admit that the cartoons were wrong or in bad taste or should not be done too, rather than claim the 'liberal' (not moral) high ground of free press. What good does that do?

Further reprinting by some other European newspapers after that are just plainly done with malignant intention.

Neurolept, I agree with your last post completely.

In fact the quote below is what I said in another forum:

/// I don't believe freedom is absolute. Does freedom of speech give me the right to shout "Fire" in a crowded cinema?
The initial publication of the cartoons by the Danish papers may be forgiven as they had no clue that it could lead to such violent reactions. But what are excuses for subsequent publications by the Norwegians, French, German, Kiwi, etc??? To show solidarity??? To thump their noses at the protestors???

Knowing that deaths may be result, should a responsible press cease and desist until the storm blow over? Or am I entitled to shout "Fire" in a crowded concert hall? ///

it is hard to leave islam out of the way when you open the newspaper and you read about an arabian who happen to be a muslim ram a plane into a building, when an indonesian who happen to be a muslim blow up a nightspot, a malaysian who happen to be a muslim proposed to set up a "moral" squad..and the list goes on.

mind you, the cartoons are absolutely tasteless but that does not warrant some syrian or lebanese, who also happen to be muslim, to beat people up and burned down embassies where most of the victims have no control and have absolutely nothing to do with the cartoons.sadly, the only crime they have committed is being at the wrong place at the wrong time.

i have to admit, with what is going on worldwide, i do indeed fear islam

We all keep commenting on the same and seem to get nowhere, the east wants the west to stop in the name of respect for religions, again as I have said many times on here, where do you draw the line. Do you not allow drawings of any religious figure, of cows for religions that honor them, gov Presidents etc, etc.

The press should not and can not be hampered down by what might be offensive to some people for if that was to be the case (as it is already in several countries) the newspapers will never be able to get real news out. Yes many times paper's print things that are in poor taste, that seemed to be biased, however that is part and parcel for having a true free press.

Remmber political and more so Religious cartoon satires like this have been around for more then several hundred years in the media, I gave a link above that outlinned the history of satire cartoons making fun of Catholic priests.

If someone does not like the view point of a paper they can voice their opinion such as in here, they can write back to the paper or another. But what right does a group, any group have in telling another what they can or can nto write about? None, I do not believe it is right because then one group is controlling another without regards to that groups beliefs and right. It is in fact the belief of many western countries that their definition of free press and free speach is correct, it is correct for their cultures, not the culture over here or perhaps in the East. So be it. The articles were not intended for the mid-east or east but for people in denmark.

There may be people out here who do not want the western press to depict prophets in drawings even though those cutlures are not of the believers, but what if the west was to say then you respect our beliefs and do not forbid people to leav e a religion, allow them to simply just leave with no recording it, do not have any laws againt a man and women who are not married in the same room together it goes against our belief in right to assemble freely and right to choice, do not allow or have countries with laws that force religions to get permission to build churches, etc. The west can say it is inshrined in their countries belief and thus any country that doews not allow the above is not following basic human rights and therefor are offensive to us and you shoudl not do it.

If I recall last yeat or the year before, the Malaysian government had a Christmas celebration in where they would not allow amny reference to the Christian diety Jesus nor any songs related directly to Jesus (this was a direct cut against free speach) and it was a Christmas event which is in fact about the birth of Jesus, however the West did not burn or protest this in a violent way.

I believe the cartoons are in poor taste (some of them only) I understand it offends certain people a great majority of them (althogh I also know that it does not offend all people nor all muslims), I understand that some of the cartoons are mean. I stil see no reason to ban them or to not allow them. They physically have not hurt a person, it is only emotions and a belief we are talking about, it shoudl be strong enough in yourself in order to understand not everyone holds the same ideas as you and therefor are differnt and stil be able to hold your own beliefs in tact. Yes you can comment on my mother, my wife, my friends, my leader, my religion, if I get angry, so be it I will and I have in the past, I will comment, I will write back or I will take action and sue for libal if it was an outright lie against me, but I have those rights alreayd in place as fololow ups, I will not try to force your right of doing so in the first place away.

Sorry I know I posted this in another area on the blog, hope it is ok to repost here also: Far too many times I have read in the Malaysian papers attacks and comments on the West, the US the Presidents, etc. I have seen and read articles calling the western cutlure being damaging to the eastern culture etc.

However if the west does comment about things over here then everyone here gets upset. This is where press censorship becomes a problem cause there is no clear cut line where to draw yourself. Thus it must be open, free and allow to havbe differnt view points. Yes allow people to attack, ridicule, poke fun and even be insensitive if that is what it takes, you can always make another paper to show a different point of view. Yes maybe my comment is to simple but it is a fact that happens. In the US there are more then 787 mainstream newspapers in 2003 according to http://www.naa.org, newspapers have different view point, political relations, some are conservative some are libreal some are religious. They are alolowed their view point, some do point and make fun of Jewish people, there is even a christian national television network in America where one of it most well known Pastors on a TV show that has been around for decades calls Gays an abonimation, calls muslims an eveil religion and has called jews liars and tryign to take over the world. He is hurtful and disrespctful yet he is allowed to be on tv every single night, why? peoplke there can comment and protest in a civil manner. His name by the way is Pat Robertson www.cbn.com, The Christian Broadcasting Network. I have never liked it, I think they literally spread outright lies and malicious comments to anyone who does not hold their view. They reach millions of people every single day on TV, radio and publications, have arms that spread to many poor countries and have the belief that Islam, Judaism should be wiped off the earth. But I would never surpress their right to voice their own view, it is what they Believe and they have a right to tell people that.

Those cartoons may be offensive to many people, but it may be those perosn's own belief they have their right to express that even in a public domain, espcially in a public domain. Those that are offended by it have the right to comment and protest back about it as is being done. If the press were to not alow it, to censor it then there would be NO Press Responsibility. Being cautious about offending people is NOT the job of a true press, expressing views of different people, and discussing the news is their only job.

luvmalaysia:
[quote]sue you say, not burn, or kill rite?[unquote]
As you would be aware, if you think hard enough, lawsuit against the paper is out of the question.

[quote]why violence i see in this 'comic' incident[unquote]
Why are SOME quarters resorting to violence is not the CONTRIBUTING FACTOR to Muslim dissension on this pathetic episode.

What some of those ignorant bunch did does not make the Danish paper any less sinful.

Grengo:
[quote]bombing people and buildings, detonating oneself is an acceptable freedom of expression?[unquote]
Yes, these senseless actions are deemed barbaric and unacceptable.

However, can you please tell me, what has these got to do with the legitimacy of the Danes publishing blasphemy in question?

Sorry, I don't get you. When someone slapped your loved ones, your loved ones revile back, and it renders the slapper's initial action as right?

AdmiralChengHo

Your comment there does nto make sence, "When someone slapped your loved ones, your loved ones revile back, and it renders the slapper's initial action as right?"

This si not the same at all, The danish cartoons were a voice not a physical slap, thus for the offended community to "slap" back would have been to make a comment in the newspapers, to draw their own cartoons, to voice their opinion, not to resort to violence. A slap for a slap is anot a slap for a bomb or a yell for a loud speaker. The dainsh cartoons was not a physical attack on anyone, it was for the people in Denmark to read, the attaqcks in the Mid-east are violent, at first they were protesting correctly by their voice and by their money in not buying their products.

Lastly about being blasphemy, that is your belief and several others, to the Danish people and to many toher people in the West it is not blasphemy mat all, just cause one group who believes it to be so does nto mean it is so for another group.

hi jeff
mrr2 closed AGAIN. once ok
http://www.paulooi.com/2006/02/04/mrr2-is-closed-again/

"As you would be aware, if you think hard enough, lawsuit against the paper is out of the question."
//why impossible? tell me please. thx
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i 2nd you rmo. clap!

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peace

Please refer to this link:
http://albawaba.com/en/news/194374

Iran launches ”Holocaust competition” in response to Danish cartoon scandal

Despite what the muslim said that the western countries / press freedom supportors should respect other people sensitivity, IF the news is true, then the message send by this 'muslim' country is scary. They can choose to offend other people sensitivity despite that this is forbidden in Islam. How can you trust this type of country to own nuclear weapon. This really makes me fear of Islam. And also why should I respect the Muslim generally, even our own press / media is showing the violence protect by the 'muslim' all over the world. They destroy, burn and kill. Now they want to provoke others by doing the same by not showing a good example. 'They' are as evil as what they said about the Danish.

rmo:
[quote]The danish cartoons were a voice not a physical slap[unquote]
I am making a logical comparison. You make a comparison of actions. The one who is not making any sense here happens to be you.

[quote]the attaqcks in the Mid-east are violent[unquote]
Have I said that the violence is justified? I did not utter any words about justifying the violence. No. However, many supporters of the Danish newspaper like you, treads on legitimizing the blasphemous cartoons ON THE BASIS of violent reactions by CERTAIN quarters in the Middle East.

[quote]to the Danish people and to many toher people in the West it is not blasphemy mat all[unquote]
To the Middle Eastern people, Holocaust is a lie. Does this view by a group of people mean any thing less to the group in Europe? It matters. Thus, your premise shatters.

Luvmalaysia:
[quote]why impossible? tell me please. thx[unquote]
It would appear you are showcasing your ignorance on a well-known fact that the Danish government had already make known its stance it would not hold the printing firm responsible for this debacle on the basis of press freedom. You no longer deserve my attention on this topic. Study well.

hahaha admiral, who publish the cartoons/comics..,go SUE THE PRINTING FIRM, is the firm that is responsible for the comics, NOT the government.

typical malaysian, anything also refer to almighty government. no wonder...sigh...

Again you call it blasphemy, I do not believe it is so becuase I do not have the same beliefs as you, I donot think anything in this world is beyond discussion or conversation or satire, ncluding the Holocaust. I do not believe any religion is far better than another religion or any government is more suited to rule than another government. I believe anything that is dealign with the public has a right to be discussed, talked about and even joked about. I cannot see any reason to silence a group of people becuase another group does not want it to be discussed or is treads on their feelings and that is what this is about feelings, emotions, beliefs? There is no actual proof of a god or any Gods, there is no actual Proof that evolution is true or not, there is no actual proof if there are other planets with beings living on them or not, thus I feel it is any person's right to discuss what they want.

Certain countires have their own laws and you seem to wish these laws to be accepted by other cutltures that do not share your point of view, but then will these countries that are offended change their laws to suit the wests point of view on women's rights, on the right to practice "any" religion, to allow any ethinic group run for the top position within a government? No of course not becuase they are their own countires with their own belif system and cutlures.

Again if you do not like the carttoons then why can you simply not view it, what abotu the people who do not believe the same as you do, what if there are people who want to see it, you then step on their rights to be able to view it. I do not agree with many things that happen in the US, Malaysia, Singapore, France, etc, but I do not try to force them to stop doing what they do or say, I understand and I try to debate it, open my mind up to it and if I get offended then I look the other way or simply discuss it. But I would never try to sinlence them at all.

most of us who won't straight away come out and shout "blasphemy" at the danes are automatically stereotyped as "danish supporter".i speak for myself when i say i'm not a "danish supporter",nor i'm on the side of the offended party.what rmo is trying to say or have been saying all these while is that,we do not shove our idelogies into someone else throat that don't share the same chain of thoughts as us.the cartoon might be blasphemy to some quarters,but it is sure hell not for most of the danish population.the whole episode started when,from what i understand,3 danish imans go on a "world tour" with 3 extra cartoons which are far more tasteless that the one in Jyllands-Posten.

what the offended party does,burning down embassies and beating innocent bystanders are uncalled for.all this for a few cartoons.i try to understand their distress over this matter but no matter which point of view i try to take, their action is by no means justify.

Jyllands-Posten is wrong for being tasteless but you have to admit that what was printed out are not intended for the muslim population in general.so asking them to practise self-censorship just because some people on the other side of the globe are not happy is just plain illogical.it is not self-censorship they should be practising but respect and tolerance for others.

Arty

Your point is well made as well. I agree the cartoons were tasteless, or atleast several of them, I agree it was in poor judgement and find no real valid reasons for such postings. However I am not the Danes and I am not exactly sure for what their reasons were for such an act. However, it does not in anyway whatsoever call for the situation that has occured afterwhich, Protesting, demonstrations even boycotting are all good ways of freedom of experession in protest of what had happened but the violence was not and is nto the fauly in anyway of the Danes or west. That lies soley on those who caused that violence.

Remmebr also these cartoons were out in September, this is Feb, 5 months later and it was the 3 Danish Imans (muslim followers) that brought it to the east and made it known and tried to bring about public outcry, even if their objective was well founded, they surely knew it would cause a stir. However, this was their right.

Now I kow this is not the same thing, nor is it anyway related, but just curious, didn't the government of malaysia begin to think about going after the wistle blower of the nude squat event instead of what had actually happened in that room. Especially after they came out and said it was a local and not a Chinese person. Now why bring that up, becusae on one part we go after the wistle blower and not the person doing the act, in another instance we go after the person doing the act but not the wistle blower. I know this last point I made here is weak.

Well I am not a Danish person, but I do ap;ologize to anyone on here that I may have offened as that in no way was my intention, although I feel I have read some offending things on the blogs today, I am thankful for being allowed to voice my opinion.